View Poll Results: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

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  • Yes

    23 32.39%
  • No

    47 66.20%
  • I'm really not sure

    1 1.41%
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Thread: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

  1. #71
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That argument is insane, as it then makes EVERYTHING and ANYTHING into a "constitutional" federal power, as obviously all things legislated at any gov't level relate to a "state interest", or they would not be "state" law to begin with. Just because something "is" does not elevate it to a "federal" constitutional status.
    That is not how the SC sees it. If it was, then many things would never be overturned by the SCOTUS.

    The 14th Amendment's EPC applies to state laws. This has been ruled on multiple times, including in Loving v VA and Reed v Reed. The state has to prove their interest in making laws, even those approved by the majority of the state's citizens. The Constitution is in place to try to prevent the government, including now state governments, from trampling the rights of its citizens because the majority wants to do so.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #72
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    ttwtt78640's Avatar
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    the thing about marriage, is that its an issue of mutual consent. two adults seek to engage in a legal contract with each other.

    there are financial & other legal elements to this.

    but, how would I feel about a State having the right to ban inter-racial marriage?

    would I want the Feds to step in and ban such a law?

    somethings, like slavery, where rhe rights of others are totally denied.....can't be left to States.

    but what happens when a State is on the Progressive side of an issue, say much of the Northeast & Slavery during the early 1800s...but the SCOTUS is on the Conservative side..and supports the right to own slaves?

    wanting to leave big decisions up to the Feds can be a double-edged sword, and I think that many folks want to leave the issue of SSM to SCOTUS and the Feds because they believe that the current-day Feds and SCOTUS will find in favor of SSM.

    however, if we had a Conservative administation and a Conservative court, I think the same folks would instead want SSM left to the states.

    its becuase of this, that I right now...at this very moment...think it should probably be left to each state to decide by referendum.

    however, my views on this issue are fluid.
    That is the priamary reason for the constitution, to say what is (and what is not) a federal power. Marraige is NOT mentioned in the constitution, therefore it is a state issue. The constitution is clear on the matter of race, it may not be used to ban entering into a contract, however gender is not seen as 'equally' protected, as we may still have 'separate but equal' things based on gender.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #73
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Absolutely,

    then the full faith and credit clause can make the marriages valid everywhere else.

  4. #74
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So marriage is needed for such thing? I really don't care if you are married or if you are a military spouse, btw
    Yes, it is. There is a necessity to ensure that those with unescorted access to military bases are cleared for national security reasons. Legal spouses have a need for unescorted access to our bases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So appeals to popularity mean something to you? Just so know, the failure of marriage is growing my numbers.

    Yes, that is what you keep saying..
    There are enough people who feel the government needs to be involved in marriage. It is reasonable to see why the need exists. You don't have to agree with it, but it doesn't make you right.

    And marriages failing have nothing to do with whether there is a need for legal marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #75
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    It is only a matter of civil rights if same-sex civil unions are not endowed with the same entitlements as heterosexual civil unions. Calling heterosexual civil unions a "marriage" and same-sex civil unions something else is not necessarily a civil rights violation.
    Currently, no civil unions have the same rights and benefits of marriage, so it is a matter of civil rights. And since same sex marriage is more legal than same sex civil unions, we are much closer to getting legal same sex marriage than same sex civil unions.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #76
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Good point, as it still leaves the constitution as the final word in federal law. Marraige is, and should continue to be, an issue of state law. Federal law and other states must honor the marraige contract of any state. It would be interesting to see if the existance of a 'civil union' contract could be required to be 'equated' to marriage, if so then polygamy is right around the corner.
    So you agree that if a same sex couple travels to a state where it is legal and gets married, then that marriage should be recognized in all other states. Right?
    This would kill all of those state amendments making it illegal.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
    R.A. Heinlein

  7. #77
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Marriage is a government contract. All this civil rights nonsense needs to stop.
    And government contracts must adhere the EPC of the 14th Amendment. That means the states must show an important state interest in denying people a right to marriage based on their relative sexes.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #78
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    ttwtt78640's Avatar
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    That is not how the SC sees it. If it was, then many things would never be overturned by the SCOTUS.

    The 14th Amendment's EPC applies to state laws. This has been ruled on multiple times, including in Loving v VA and Reed v Reed. The state has to prove their interest in making laws, even those approved by the majority of the state's citizens. The Constitution is in place to try to prevent the government, including now state governments, from trampling the rights of its citizens because the majority wants to do so.
    So, for hundreds of years, the marriage "definition" has been wrong and 'discriminatory'? Only now do "wise" judges see this? How do these "wise" judges see polygamy? The constitution lists (enumerates) federal powers as well, yet you see no compelling reason to stay within them if a "wise" judge finds "harm" in doing so. The SCOTUS did not overturn "slavery", clearly a moral wrong and civil rights violation of the greatest possible magnitude (allowing people to be the property of others), it took constitutional action (and a war) to settle that "legal" matter, not the mere dictate of the SCOUTS.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 05-28-12 at 12:29 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #79
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The will of the people through their votes and actions of the state legisalture are no longer to be considered? Only a wise judge may have the final word? Does that judge now have the power to decide that the constitution need not specifically address these things, to make them become federal powers? This 'logic' gives the federal gov't, actually only the judical branch of it, supreme power over ALL legal issues, without that pesky need to refer to the acual words of our constitution. In other words, if a wise judge, does not see "interest" in the law it is nullified or amended to fit the "interest" of only that judge?
    Not when that will violates the US Constitution. The majority of this country wanted interracial marriage bans to remain in place.

    I like having a system of checks and balances. The SC is an important part of that system. Just because you disagree with them striking down unconstitutional laws, doesn't make them wrong. Honestly, there have been decisions I don't agree with the SC on, but that doesn't mean that they are some supreme power. Future court decisions or even changing the scope of a law or even just having enough support for a Constitutional Amendment are all ways to overturn SC decisions. If you are unable to get do one of these things, then obviously it isn't just the Justices who believe in how they ruled.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #80
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Good point, as it still leaves the constitution as the final word in federal law. Marraige is, and should continue to be, an issue of state law. Federal law and other states must honor the marraige contract of any state. It would be interesting to see if the existance of a 'civil union' contract could be required to be 'equated' to marriage, if so then polygamy is right around the corner.
    Why does everyone keep bringing up same sex civil unions? We already have legal same sex marriage in multiple states. Once DOMA goes down and the FF&CC is restored, same sex marriage will have to be legally recognized in every state in the US. Otherwise, there will be even more lawsuits.

    That is assuming that the Prop 8 case doesn't strike down state level same sex marriage bans anyway.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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