View Poll Results: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

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    23 32.39%
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    47 66.20%
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Thread: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    Should the issue of slavery be left to the states?
    Without the Thirteenth Amendment, it would have to be.

    So the answer to the question of the thread is until there is an amendment that says otherwise, the rule of law should be respected, or we don't really have a nation based on law.

  2. #12
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Until the current federal welfare system that awards unmarried persons by qualifying them for better benefits than married persons which in turn erodes the family unit, I believe the federal control of our social choices should be reduced rather than increased !
    The question is more important than the answer!

  3. #13
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Without the Thirteenth Amendment, it would have to be.

    So the answer to the question of the thread is until there is an amendment that says otherwise, the rule of law should be respected, or we don't really have a nation based on law.
    There doesn't need to be a new Amendment to deal with this issue. It is covered by the 14th Amendment, just as interracial marriage was. The only difference is the classification is under sex, or possibly sexuality, instead of race. The SC will end up making the decision on whether there is any reasonable state interest in banning same sex marriage. That is what the states need in order to maintain their bans under the 14th Amendment (of course, if the classification is deemed sex or to be at the intermediate level of scrutiny, then it needs to be an important state interest). The 14th is about equality under the law and trumps the 10th any time the states are not treating people equally unless the states can prove they are doing so within a state interest.

    So far, the states have been unable to show a reasonable state interest in banning same sex marriage because either a) their reasoning does not apply to opposite sex couples for the state interest or b) their reasoning is not supported by research. Just having a majority of people support the bans is not enough because if it were, we wouldn't have many of the SC rulings pertaining to the 14th Amendment that we do.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #14
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?
    1) If two people are committed to each, not my place to judge them
    2) Civil Unions would be my preference instead of the word Marriage
    3) States/Counties is a License, not the Federal Government

    That being said, the whole idea of needing a License to Marry or form a Union is ridiculous, just another way for a Government to make money, people are not possessions like a dog or a car and should not need a License to show their love to each other.
    Career Politicians are the Downfall of America

  5. #15
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLastIndependent View Post
    Should the issue of slavery be left to the states?
    While hardly a perfect analogy, since slavery contracts had no 'mutual consent' involved, it makes a good point that the answer is definitely YES unless (until?) the constitution is amended to make it a federal power. Just because something may be popular, or is seen as "needed" or "fair" by a judge (or even the majority of the SCOTUS) does not make it into a federal constitutional power.

    What we have here is a desire by some to impose a change on the definition of marraige (and by extension family), that makes gender, a key factor in sexual reproduction, no longer "important". If not for that 'minor' issue why should marraige be barred between a biological brother and sister, or even limitted to only one man and one woman (thus allowing polygamy)? The only responsibility of the federal gov't is to honor and enforce the marriage contract granted by each state per the rules (laws) of that state.

    Perhaps the better question is why a state marriage contract should alter the federal tax status of anyone. If one were REALLY concerned with "civil rights" then the contractual relationship between people would have no effect on their taxation and all citizens would be treated 'equally' as individuals by the FIT code, regardless of their contractual obligations to each other or how many children (dependents) that they decide to have. Whether you live in a high or low cost area (e.g. NYC vs. rural Texas) should have more bearing on your FIT obligation (as it does on your income and living expenses) than whether you choose to enter into a marriage contract or have children.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 05-28-12 at 10:13 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #16
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?
    I say no. Gay marriage should be banned on the federal level and that includes civil unions, domestic partnerships and any other paper coated terms that closet supporters of gay marriage want to use to sneak in gay marriage. When it comes to certain things saying leave it up to the states is a cop-out.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  7. #17
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    While hardly a perfect analogy, since slavery contracts had no 'mutual consent' involved, it makes a good point that the answer is definitely YES unless (until?) the constitution is amended to make it a federal power. Just because something may be popular, or is seen as "needed" by a judge, does not make it into a federal power. What we have here is a desire by some to impose a change on the definition of marriage (and by extension family), that makes gender, a key factor in sexual reproduction, no longer "important". If not for that 'minor' issue why should marraige be barred btween a biological brother and sister, or even limitted to only one man and one woman (thus allowing polygamy)? The only responsibility of the federal gov't is to honor and enforce the marriage contract granted by each state per the rules (laws) of that state. Perhaps the better question is why a state marriage contract should alter the federal tax status of anyone. If one were REALLY concerned with "civil rights" then the contractual relationship between people would have no effect on their taxation and all citizens would be treated 'equally' as individuals by the FIT code, regardless of their contractual obligations to each other or how many children (dependents) that they decide to have. Whether you live in a high or low cost area (e.g. NYC vs. rural Texas) should have more bearing on your FIT obligation (as it does on your income and living expenses) than whether you choose to enter into a marriage contract or have children.
    Marriage has changed throughout history several times. And if the states are not willing to limit opposite sex couples who can't have children from getting married and/or make it harder for those married couples who do have children from getting divorced and/or also "encouraging" those couples who have children outside of marriage to get married, then procreation cannot be deemed as a valid state interest in marriage.

    Incestuous sexual relationships are illegal. For both the genetic issues of children and the fact that many involved some form of undue influence beginning prior to age of consent.

    If the only obligation the federal government had was to honor and enforce state marriage contracts per state rules, then interracial marriage and convicts getting married would still be banned by some states.

    Family receive benefits and rights for just being family. There has to be a way for adults to choose a person to get those rights of family who isn't otherwise entitled to them plus extra for the mere commitment to share their lives, including expenses.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 05-28-12 at 10:17 AM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #18
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snake_Plissken View Post
    1) If two people are committed to each, not my place to judge them
    2) Civil Unions would be my preference instead of the word Marriage
    3) States/Counties is a License, not the Federal Government

    That being said, the whole idea of needing a License to Marry or form a Union is ridiculous, just another way for a Government to make money, people are not possessions like a dog or a car and should not need a License to show their love to each other.
    The marraige contract is more about inheritance, joint property, child custody, parental responsibility and tax law than about "love", since falling out of "love" does not, in and of itself, alter or nullify the marriage contract, mutual support obligations for children (or the spouse) or the rights to any joint property.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #19
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I say no. Gay marriage should be banned on the federal level and that includes civil unions, domestic partnerships and any other paper coated terms that closet supporters of gay marriage want to use to sneak in gay marriage. When it comes to certain things saying leave it up to the states is a cop-out.
    There is not enough support for a federal marriage amendment now, which is what would be required to federally ban same sex marriage. And the support for same sex marriage is increasing every day, which means the support for a FMA is decreasing every day.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #20
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There is not enough support for a federal marriage amendment now, which is what would be required to federally ban same sex marriage. And the support for same sex marriage is increasing every day, which means the support for a FMA is decreasing every day.
    I suppose that with all the gay and tranny propaganda being pumped out on ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX and other liberal entertainment channels there will be lots of idiots to support legalizing gay marriage.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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