View Poll Results: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

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Thread: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

  1. #181
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Then simply change the tax law, that you cite as "unfair", not require a federal COURT edict to somehow allow ANY consenting adults to marry, trumping all state law for the sake of ending one 'discriminatroy' federal law. This action, federal control of marraige, SHOULD require a constitutional amendment, as marraige is NOT now a federal power, and with good reason.
    ONE discriminatory law? Really? There are over 1000 federal rights, and benefits that you can only have access to with a marriage license.
    Which would be more cost effective change the marriage license, or change over 1000 laws?
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
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  2. #182
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    This country is based on constitutionally specified individual rights, granted directly to the people, contitutionally specified federal powers and ALL other powers are left to the several states to decide. Marraige is neither a federal power nor an individual right, mentioned in the constitution, so it is therefore a state gov't power to set the standards for its contract terms. Just what constitutional right do you assert allows for SSM, that does not also allow for polygamy?
    So much wrong here....

    First, people are not granted rights. The rights are there whether they are being surpressed or not.

    Second, even the Constitution shows that there are rights that are retained by the people that the Constitution does not enumerate. the 9th Amendment shows this.

    Third, SCOTUS has already ruled that marriage IS a fundemental right held by the people. Which means that the 9th Amendment applies. Because of this the 14th Amendment: Section 1, which prohibits the States from interfereing with individual rights, also applies. Which means this is not a subject which may be left up to the States.

    Amendment 9 - Construction of Constitution. Ratified 12/15/1791.

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
    Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

    1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    US Constitution

    The cases which have ruled on and agreed that marriage is a fundemental right are: Loving vs Virginia, and Zablocki v Redhail. And in Turner v Safley the court refused to apply strict scutiny to a Missouri prison regulation prohibiting inmates from marrying, absent a compelling reason. Instead, the Court found the regulation failed to meet even a lowered standard of "reasonableness" that it said it would apply in evaluating the constitutionality of prison regulations. I'll let you look those up for yourself.
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  3. #183
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    IMO if even 1 person is denied a right for no valid reason out of a billion people then that is 1 to many. This country is based on individual rights...not mass rights.
    You realize that this is America, right?
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  4. #184
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    You realize that this is America, right?
    Yes. What is your point?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  5. #185
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So much wrong here....

    First, people are not granted rights. The rights are there whether they are being surpressed or not.

    Second, even the Constitution shows that there are rights that are retained by the people that the Constitution does not enumerate. the 9th Amendment shows this.

    Third, SCOTUS has already ruled that marriage IS a fundemental right held by the people. Which means that the 9th Amendment applies. Because of this the 14th Amendment: Section 1, which prohibits the States from interfereing with individual rights, also applies. Which means this is not a subject which may be left up to the States.





    US Constitution

    The cases which have ruled on and agreed that marriage is a fundemental right are: Loving vs Virginia, and Zablocki v Redhail. And in Turner v Safley the court refused to apply strict scutiny to a Missouri prison regulation prohibiting inmates from marrying, absent a compelling reason. Instead, the Court found the regulation failed to meet even a lowered standard of "reasonableness" that it said it would apply in evaluating the constitutionality of prison regulations. I'll let you look those up for yourself.
    That is interesting but not exactly to the point, as the actual marriage statute was not challenged. It was the disallowing of other mixed race sex prohibitions or prison regulations that were overturned not the basic state marraige contract provisions. If it is reasonable to have title 9 college sports regulation, specifying that ONLY gender applies, then it is reasonable to have marraige laws where only gender applies. It has also been upheld that 'separate but equal' is allowed for gender, but not race. So far, no "gender bender" laws have been upheld, that I am aware of.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 05-30-12 at 12:09 PM.
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  6. #186
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post
    ONE discriminatory law? Really? There are over 1000 federal rights, and benefits that you can only have access to with a marriage license.
    Which would be more cost effective change the marriage license, or change over 1000 laws?
    Show me the "cost effective" clause of the constitution. To assert that no constitutional action is required for this 'newly discovered' right to SSM, that would not also apply to polygamy, is very hard to do. What "compelling state interest" denies polygamy? Is it simply that TWO is the correct number of marraige "partners", while gender plays no role? That is not the case for business partnership contracts that may have multiple partners, yet specify no gender restrictions.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #187
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    This country is based on constitutionally specified individual rights, granted directly to the people, contitutionally specified federal powers and ALL other powers are left to the several states to decide. Marraige is neither a federal power nor an individual right, mentioned in the constitution, so it is therefore a state gov't power to set the standards for its contract terms. Just what constitutional right do you assert allows for SSM, that does not also allow for polygamy?
    So you're one of those that feels that only those rights written into the Constitution are guaranteed? You do understand that marriage has been deemed a right by the SC? Why? Because in order to list every right individuals possess we would need a lot of paper/computer memory to do so.

    The Constitutional right to marriage along with the right of Equal Protection under the law guaranteed by the 14th Amendment. That is what gives people the right to be in a same sex legal marriage.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 05-30-12 at 12:12 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #188
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Ending slavery was the right thing to do, allowing women to vote was the right thing to do and repealing the prohibition of the recreational drug alcohol was the right thing to do, but all of these "right things to do", CORRECTLY took constitutional amendments to get them done, as should have Roe vs. Wade, instead of a judge (actually only 5 out of 9 specific judges) "inventing" or "implying" that a mysitcal (yet unwritten) "privacy" clause allows this to be so, because it is the "right thing to do", under the, also constitutionally non-existant, "right thing to do" clause.
    Allowing same sex couples to enter into legal marriage is the right thing to do.

    Was legalizing interracial marriage the right thing to do? What about deciding that male heirs should not have priority over female heirs, was that the right thing to do? If so, why didn't those things need a Constitutional Amendment? In fact, I guarantee there are thousands of cases in which the SC has ruled on things that you would consider "the right thing to do" without the need for a Constitutional Amendment because they were already covered by one. Just as the right to enter into a same sex marriage is already covered under a Constitutional Amendment.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #189
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is interesting but not exactly to the point, as the actual marriage statute was not challenged. It was the disallowing of other mixed race sex prohibitions or prison regulations that were overturned not the basic state marraige contract provisions. If it is reasonable to have title 9 college sports regualtion, specifying that ONLY gender applies, then it is reasonable to have marraige laws where only gender applies.
    They were overturned because marriage was deemed a fundemental right. The only way to take away a fundemental right is if there is a compelling interest to do so.

    Also I don't think you quite understand Title IX. It prohibits the discrimination of someone based on their gender in regards to school athletics. So why you are using this I don't really know. If they are not going to allow a school to discriminate against someone because of their gender then why would it be ok for states to discriminate against SSM because of gender?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  10. #190
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Show me the "cost effective" clause of the constitution. To assert that no constitutional action is required for this 'newly discovered' right to SSM, that would not also apply to polygamy, is very hard to do. What "compelling state interest" denies polygamy? Is it simply that TWO is the correct number of marraige "partners", while gender plays no role? That is not the case for business partnership contracts that may have multiple partners, yet specify no gender restrictions.
    Again, I must reiterate that Rights are and always have been there. As such there is no such thing as a "newly discovered" right. You might be able to say that it is a "newly recognized" right, but it is not a "newly discovered right".

    As far as polygamy is concerned...I agree that it to should also be allowed based on the same reasoning that is applied to SSM. While doing so a new system should be set up which takes care of the additional "problems" that arise from a polygamous marriage that are currently not addressed. Such as inheritance, divorce, custodial rights because of a divorce etc etc.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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