View Poll Results: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

Voters
71. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    23 32.39%
  • No

    47 66.20%
  • I'm really not sure

    1 1.41%
  • What's marriage?

    0 0%
Page 17 of 21 FirstFirst ... 71516171819 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 206

Thread: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

  1. #161
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Thunder, try to imagine driving cross-country with your spouse and children. Every 50 feet in the Northeast, and every 50 hours out west, your marital status, your rights to seek emergency medical care for the kids, to make medical decisions for your spouse, etc. would change.
    Step-parents do not have any automatic rights to their spouse's children. SSM will not change this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Try to imagine having to decline a job offer because it would entail a move to a state in which you and your spouse would be "unmarried". Or plotting one, to escape the justice of a divorce.
    Heteros today jump states to seek a jurisdiction more favorable to their 'plot'. SSM will not change this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Try to imagine having to litigate which side of a state line your spouse died on, so as to be entitled to his or her life insurance proceeds.
    To bad that never happens. In the extremely rare case where it's an issue, the police report of the death resolves the question of the location.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    There's a provision in the US constitution to the effect that every state must give "full faith and credit" to the denizens or former denizens of another, when it comes to such matters. At the present, many states have common law marriage laws -- no two alike. If you are considered "married" via common law in Arkansas, then should your marriage be "dissolved" by traveling to New York?
    Via common law? Yes.
    Last edited by Jerry; 05-29-12 at 09:17 AM.

  2. #162
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,858
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Stop trying to excuse and cover for the behavior.
    If I was trying to do that then I would do the same thing as them. Have you ever known me to call someone against SSM a homophobe? Of course not. I don't believe in that kind of behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Not really, no. In fact in order to maintain their tax-exempt status your average church is not allowed to be involved in politics.
    Church's have tax exempt status. Religious political movements are not a church. Indeed those that are religious often speak out against SSM and homosexuality in general all the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Nope.
    Considering what I said above would you still say "nope"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    All Americans do this to eachother. Even gays aren't uniform on the issue of SSM. A good number of gays don't think ssm is a big deal at all and are quite embarrassed at the pro-ssm movement.
    Agreed, this is human nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The behavior of one group doesn't define the behavior of other groups.
    Most political movements that I know of (be they religious or not) are generally the same. The way they go about it might be different, but their end goal is the same. To push their ideals upon other people. And as such that could be construed, as you have here, as infringing on their/your rights. Whether it actually is or not is a different matter entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I did make that distinction. The reader saw the words the wanted, not the words I placed.
    I looked at your post again and I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Perhaps you could point it out to me?
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 05-29-12 at 01:26 PM.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  3. #163
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Goldsboro,PA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,595
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Stop trying to excuse and cover for the behavior.


    Not really, no. In fact in order to maintain their tax-exempt status your average church is not allowed to be involved in politics.


    Churches, average or not, are involved in politics, directly and indirectly....There is a movement underway to change their tax-free status, which may never go anywhere.

  4. #164
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,690

    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Uh, not so much. You couldn't find 50 American adults, nevermind 50 states, outside the Westboro Baptist Church who agree with them, but nonetheless, they are guaranteed their right to exersize certain civil liberties.

    The whole point of civil rights is that you can be viewed as undesirable by a majority -- even by an overwhelming majority -- and yet continue unmolested on your merry way. As the Supremes have already ruled nothing is more fundamental to one's civil rights than sex, the home and the family, this fight over same-sex marriage is all over but the crying, and justice won.
    Be that as it may, I'm suggesting that in order for the best progress to actually stand, you have to work the masses to a certain extent before you can have your victory. Sometimes you can squeak reforms of magnitude without public commentary, as has happened in the past. However, SSM is hardly that issue. The public has its eye on it. The Courts do not operate in some sanctuary either. Public opinion and their own disposition have quite the impact on them. If the system worked as I had wanted it to on this one given issue, we would have it be a guaranteed right across the nation. But I'm not in charge, the system doesn't work that way, and that's unfortunate. As much as I would want SSM to be there, it won't be without a great amount of fuss until at least the Courts stand firm. Anything else is posturing.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 05-29-12 at 06:14 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  5. #165
    Advisor Lightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Last Seen
    07-14-13 @ 12:16 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    342

    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The 9th amendment states...



    This shows that there are rights that people have that are not enumerated in the Constitution.

    SCOTUS has determined that marriage is a fundamental right. Which means that even though it is not talked about in the Constitution it is still covered by the Constitution via the 9th Amendment.

    In point of fact the Bill of Rights would never have passed if the 9th Amendment and the 10th Amendment had not been included in it because many people were afraid that if they weren't then the rest of the BoR's would have been considered the only rights that people were allowed.
    Applying the 9th amendment to SSM is not only easy and cheap, it's invalid. Under your interpretation, the 9th amendment can be applied to anything as long as their is reason behind it, e.g. If a guy a gouges my dogs eye out, I can gouge his eye out. An "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth". After all we are a nation of laws based off of Judeo-Christian priniciples. Wouldn't that be Constitutionally sanctioned? It's after all an unenumerated right of mine to steal groceries in order to feed my kids because I can't find work. After all, I deserve the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Thats reasonable, or is it not?

    Let me tell you, roguenuke, and cephus something. Everyone whos advocating states rights and/or something else doesn't hate/detest/abhor or whatnot the LGBT community, at least I don't. I personally don't give a damn what you, my neighbor or anyone else does in their bedrooms or in their spare time. We just want to see things done right, by the book (the Constitution). Everything you guys are advocating, is just more government power in my ears, and thats the last thing I want. I don't know about you guys, I hope government intrusion never reaches the level of a Washington bureaucrat dictating what the hell my kids can eat or not.

    Thats what you guys don't understand the more y'all give to government, the more control they have over us.

  6. #166
    versus the world
    Surtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    The greatest planet in the world.
    Last Seen
    06-10-14 @ 03:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    7,017

    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Where's the option for "why the **** is this even an issue"?
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  7. #167
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,858
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning View Post
    Applying the 9th amendment to SSM is not only easy and cheap, it's invalid. Under your interpretation, the 9th amendment can be applied to anything as long as their is reason behind it, e.g. If a guy a gouges my dogs eye out, I can gouge his eye out. An "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth". After all we are a nation of laws based off of Judeo-Christian priniciples. Wouldn't that be Constitutionally sanctioned? It's after all an unenumerated right of mine to steal groceries in order to feed my kids because I can't find work. After all, I deserve the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Thats reasonable, or is it not?
    You have a few problems here.

    First, if a guy gouges out your dogs eyes then he is no longer with in his rights because his rights ends where yours start. So if he gouges out your dog's eyes then he is damaging your property. Which means he interfered with your rights. If you recipocate the gouging of eyes by gouging out his eyes then not only is it not an "eye for an eye" (because his eyes are not equal to your dog's eyes) but you are then interfering with HIS rights as your rights ends where his rights start. So no, the 9th would not apply to this scenario. Everyone's rights ends where someone else's rights begin.

    Next, by stealing food you are stealing someone else's property. So the same precept applies here as it does above. Your rights end where someone else's rights start.

    And while this country might have been based off of Judeo-Christian beliefs (debateable), the Constitution does not run off of Judeo-Christian beliefs. It runs on laws and rights. Remember, the 1st Amendment puts a seperation between Church and State.

    Next, you do have a right to life...until the courts deem that you do not deserve it (death penalty) because you killed a dozen people. You also do have a right to liberty, so long as you do not interfere in someone elses right to liberty. And no one has the right to happiness. If everyone had a right to happiness then everyone would be rich and own porche's and never go hungry and always had free medical care that would help take care of any little problem that arose.

    So in conclusion your protest about the 9th being invalid is not correct. The 9th Amendment was put there to protect any other fundemental right that was not put into the original Bill of Rights. That was not just its reason for being. It was the MAIN reason for it being put into the original Bill of Rights. With your type of arguement then no matter what the 9th Amendment would be invalid. In which case why the hell would it have been put in there to begin with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning View Post
    Let me tell you, roguenuke, and cephus something. Everyone whos advocating states rights and/or something else doesn't hate/detest/abhor or whatnot the LGBT community, at least I don't. I personally don't give a damn what you, my neighbor or anyone else does in their bedrooms or in their spare time. We just want to see things done right, by the book (the Constitution). Everything you guys are advocating, is just more government power in my ears, and thats the last thing I want. I don't know about you guys, I hope government intrusion never reaches the level of a Washington bureaucrat dictating what the hell my kids can eat or not.

    Thats what you guys don't understand the more y'all give to government, the more control they have over us.
    You've got this backwards. Since Marriage has been determined to be a fundemental right it doesn't give the government more power. It restricts the government in its power. Since marriage is a fundemental right that means that the government is not allowed to make laws that restrict one class of people from getting married over another class...such as they tried to do during the miscegation era.

    You argue for the rights of States to decide in the case of SSM, which gives them all the power...power which is generally abused. We argue that since marriage is a fundemental right, and does not interfere with anyone elses right then neither the State, nor the Federal government can make laws against SSM. However we do look to the Federal government in enforcing that no other State makes laws against SSM because that is the Federal Governments main job...to protect the individual rights that each and every citizen of this country has.

    Now personally I could care less if you hate, despise, love, like the LGBT community or not. The ONLY reason that I participate in SSM threads is to promote the right of two consenting human adults to marry. I believe that no one has the right to deny them something which I have as a right but they are not allowed just because they happen to be of the same gender. The only way that I would ever agree to deny SSM is if you can come up with a valid reason to deny it. Such as it harming another, outside person or interfering with another persons rights. Can you do this? Yes or no?
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 05-29-12 at 08:05 PM.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  8. #168
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,680

    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Of course it should. But you know...my position is evolving on this and could change, should it become politically expedient...

  9. #169
    Student
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    03-06-13 @ 02:59 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    272

    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Not really, no. In fact in order to maintain their tax-exempt status your average church is not allowed to be involved in politics.
    So did the churches that denied communion to those who would vote for Kerry in 04 lose their tax exempt status? Let's be realistic, I doubt many if any churches will ever lose that status because religion is untouchable, despite many of them are scandalously wealthy and well there's the 1st amendment. They rant and rave all the time about political issues and the LSD church spends millions to support bans on SSM.

  10. #170
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolv67 View Post
    So did the churches that denied communion to those who would vote for Kerry in 04 lose their tax exempt status? Let's be realistic, I doubt many if any churches will ever lose that status because religion is untouchable, despite many of them are scandalously wealthy and well there's the 1st amendment. They rant and rave all the time about political issues and the LSD church spends millions to support bans on SSM.
    Did you know that John Kerry served in Vietnam?

Page 17 of 21 FirstFirst ... 71516171819 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •