View Poll Results: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

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    23 32.39%
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Thread: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

  1. #151
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Pro-ssm argues that I should accept gay behavior. This would be a violation of my right to free religious expression. It's one thing to welcome and encourage folks to support gays, but pro-ssm goes further as to villainize, troll, and insult those of us who simply maintain a different religious opinion.

    Tolerance is a 2 way street.
    No, the point is that you have to live and let live, just like we do with you.
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  2. #152
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    On an ethical level, no. Whether people deserve equality is not a "state issue." It's a civil rights issue. This is like asking whether women being allowed to vote should be a state issue. The states don't get to decide to discriminate against people.
    This is why I voted yes.

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  3. #153
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    SSM does not in any way inhibit your right to free religious expression.
    That's not what I said.

    The pro-ssm political movement is not a same-sex marriage. They are the political force behind the issue. The issue of ssm harms me every time one of them comes on this forum and starts tossing around homophobe and other insults. To reiterate, a given same-sex marriage doesn't affect me good or bad, in any way. The pro-ssm political movement are the one's trying to infringe on my right to free religious expression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No church is going to be required to marry two people of the same sex.
    Well, I agree, but I'm talking about me, and I'm not a church.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No one is going to force you to attend a same sex wedding.
    I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So in what way does SSM actually inhibit your right to free religious expression?
    I already explained, 3 times. Explaining a 4th time isn't going to offer more clarity.

  4. #154
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's not what I said.

    The pro-ssm political movement is not a same-sex marriage. They are the political force behind the issue. The issue of ssm harms me every time one of them comes on this forum and starts tossing around homophobe and other insults. To reiterate, a given same-sex marriage doesn't affect me good or bad, in any way. The pro-ssm political movement are the one's trying to infringe on my right to free religious expression.
    Sorry Jerry but I have a hard time believeing that you have such thin skin as to be harmed by words. You just don't strike me as the kind of guy that lets someone elses beliefs roll over you. I've noticed that you quite often ignore such comments (such as "homophobe") before.

    Now as for SSM's political movement....don't all the other religions have their own "seperate" poltical movement? Doesn't yours? And I know they all condemn one another. If you think that SSM's political movement infringes your free expression of religion then don't those also?

    And just to note, you didn't make the distinction between SSM and SSM's political movement before so how was I suppose to know?
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  5. #155
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Possibly temporally. If it warrants national action of some sort, be in legislative or through the court, you need enough states that have accepted it in order to have enough credibility for it to be solid nationally. If not nationally, it is the only way to go through the states.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  6. #156
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Some states have a pathetic history of discrimination and hatred, so no.
    PeteEU

  7. #157
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    No, the point is that you have to live and let live, just like we do with you.
    Yup, and that means tolerating my lack of support for your issue.

  8. #158
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?
    Thunder, try to imagine driving cross-country with your spouse and children. Every 50 feet in the Northeast, and every 50 hours out west, your marital status, your rights to seek emergency medical care for the kids, to make medical decisions for your spouse, etc. would change.

    Try to imagine having to decline a job offer because it would entail a move to a state in which you and your spouse would be "unmarried". Or plotting one, to escape the justice of a divorce.

    Try to imagine having to litigate which side of a state line your spouse died on, so as to be entitled to his or her life insurance proceeds.

    Etc.

    There's a provision in the US constitution to the effect that every state must give "full faith and credit" to the denizens or former denizens of another, when it comes to such matters. At the present, many states have common law marriage laws -- no two alike. If you are considered "married" via common law in Arkansas, then should your marriage be "dissolved" by traveling to New York?

    What you propose is unworkable, would create a GLBT ghettozied area of the country and is not constitutional, IMO.


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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Sorry Jerry but I have a hard time believeing that you have such thin skin as to be harmed by words. You just don't strike me as the kind of guy that lets someone elses beliefs roll over you. I've noticed that you quite often ignore such comments (such as "homophobe") before.
    Stop trying to excuse and cover for the behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Now as for SSM's political movement....don't all the other religions have their own "seperate" poltical movement?
    Not really, no. In fact in order to maintain their tax-exempt status your average church is not allowed to be involved in politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Doesn't yours?
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And I know they all condemn one another.
    All Americans do this to eachother. Even gays aren't uniform on the issue of SSM. A good number of gays don't think ssm is a big deal at all and are quite embarrassed at the pro-ssm movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    If you think that SSM's political movement infringes your free expression of religion then don't those also?
    The behavior of one group doesn't define the behavior of other groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And just to note, you didn't make the distinction between SSM and SSM's political movement before so how was I suppose to know?
    I did make that distinction. The reader saw the words the wanted, not the words I placed.

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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Possibly temporally. If it warrants national action of some sort, be in legislative or through the court, you need enough states that have accepted it in order to have enough credibility for it to be solid nationally. If not nationally, it is the only way to go through the states.
    Uh, not so much. You couldn't find 50 American adults, nevermind 50 states, outside the Westboro Baptist Church who agree with them, but nonetheless, they are guaranteed their right to exersize certain civil liberties.

    The whole point of civil rights is that you can be viewed as undesirable by a majority -- even by an overwhelming majority -- and yet continue unmolested on your merry way. As the Supremes have already ruled nothing is more fundamental to one's civil rights than sex, the home and the family, this fight over same-sex marriage is all over but the crying, and justice won.

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