View Poll Results: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

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Thread: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

  1. #131
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If that is the case then what is so sacred about marraige applying to only two partners? Polygamy preceeded same sex marraige and is much more popular among many religions. Is it not prohibiting the free exercise of religion to restrict marraige to only one spouse?
    Because the rules of marriage only allow for two people to be involved legally.

    I'm not against some legal institution to be available, even called marriage for those who want multiple partners, but it will be at least partially different from marriage. It is only logical that it has to be.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #132
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    let's say that we had a Conservative administration and a solidly Conservative SCOTUS.

    with that situation, would you STILL want SSM to be left to the Feds?

    cause if we did, the Feds might strike down SSM.
    And it would still keep coming back to them over and over again until they got it right (or all the states allowed it). It is not reasonable to assume that we would always have an all conservative court that all considered same sex marriage bans constitutional.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #133
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Well, yes and no. The only legitimate concern that government has with marriage are the legal questions, such as property rights, inheritance rights, etc. Gay marriage requires no changes in the existing laws to institute. Polygamy, however, does require massive changes and as such, before we institute polygamy, we need to consider the legal ramifications. I've got no problem with polygamy, I just don't want to see the courts clogged up with polygamist divorces, etc. before we've had a chance to consider how to handle it.
    That side-steps the issue. Is marraige a state or federal matter? Currently it is a state matter but many wish to make it a federal matter simply by a SCOTUS edict that gender discrimination is involved, prohibiting SS couples from participating. That is a dangerous path to go down as next that may be said for title 9 as well, if a school must provide equal athletic slots for men and women does it then need equal allocation based on race and orientation as well? If a man can be a wife, may they not also be a 'female' athlete? Equal protection can be said to mean proportional representation as has been tried with 'title 9' and 'affirmative action' nonsense in the past. We are fast approaching a point at which constitutional power may be granted without the need for any amendments, simply by inferring or 'interpreting' one thing to apply to another. The federal gov't has no business in saying that the state marraige of one man to one woman agreement, just as the federal title 9 school athletic requirement is, is wrong.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #134
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because the rules of marriage only allow for two people to be involved legally.

    I'm not against some legal institution to be available, even called marriage for those who want multiple partners, but it will be at least partially different from marriage. It is only logical that it has to be.
    Marraige is a state matter. So marraige, to you, means two, and only two, partners but they now MUST be of any gender? We seem to have little trouble with business partnerships involving more than two partners. Let us just keep marraige as a state power and let life go on. The rush to federalize all aspects of law is neither needed nor wanted, that is why we have a constitution (to limit federal and state gov't power), amend it if you can, but do not ignore it or try to use the SCOTUS to 'interpret' it away.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #135
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That side-steps the issue. Is marraige a state or federal matter? Currently it is a state matter but many wish to make it a federal matter simply by a SCOTUS edict that gender discrimination is involved, prohibiting SS couples from participating. That is a dangerous path to go down as next that may be said for title 9 as well, if a school must provide equal athletic slots for men and women does it then need equal allocation based on race and orientation as well? If a man can be a wife, may they not also be a 'female' athlete? Equal protection can be said to mean proportional representation as has been tried with 'title 9' and 'affirmative action' nonsense in the past. We are fast approaching a point at which constitutional power may be granted without the need for any amendments, simply by inferring or 'interpreting' one thing to apply to another. The federal gov't has no business in saying that the state marraige of one man to one woman agreement, just as the federal title 9 school athletic requirement is, is wrong.
    What you are failing to grasp is state matters still must adhere to the US Constitution, particularly the 14th Amendment's EPC in this case.

    No one but you is talking about the Title 9 requirement. If you have an issue with it, bring it to the court and argue your case. Same sex marriage bans, both the federal and state level bans, are at or will soon be at the SC level. It is highly likely that first, DOMA will be struck down and then state same sex marriage bans will be struck down. Like it or not, both are unconstitutional.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #136
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Actually it is a good one, because that took constitutional amendment to 'resolve', not a mere act of congress or the opinion of an "activist" judge.
    My point exactly. Civil rights issues should not be left to the state and really shouldn't need a constitutional ammendment but it needs to be one way or another on the federal level.
    "The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool." : Stephen King

    "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto." Thomas Jefferson

  7. #137
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Marraige is a state matter. So marraige, to you, means two, and only two, partners but they now MUST be of any gender? We seem to have little trouble with business partnerships involving more than two partners. Let us just keep marraige as a state power and let life go on. The rush to federalize all aspects of law is neither needed nor wanted, that is why we have a constitution (to limit federal and state gov't power), amend it if you can, but do not ignore it or try to use the SCOTUS to 'interpret' it away.
    Because business partnerships do not involved rights to things like end of life decisions as a part of the contract. Business partnerships do not include custodial arrangements for children that become a part of the relationship. Business partnerships do not include rights to things such as military base access and dependent benefits.

    Marriage makes people legal family. I am for an arrangement to allow a person to have multiple spouses with one designated as the primary decision maker for each of the others. But the potential legal issues need to be addressed prior to any decision to make it legal since the fact that there is a major potential for legal issues to arise just due to the nature of the relationships in connection with the legal arrangement is in itself a legitimate state interest.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #138
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    States issue the marriage license and marriage is a social construct. As such, a population (society) can define marriage anyway they want and the issuing body (the state) can also do so.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  9. #139
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    States issue the marriage license and marriage is a social construct. As such, a population (society) can define marriage anyway they want and the issuing body (the state) can also do so.
    If this were true, under US law, we would possibly still have interracial marriage bans in place and prisoners in many places that have a possibility of parole would not be able to marry. The SCOTUS has ruled otherwise on this issue.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #140
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    Re: Should same-sex marriage be left to the States?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    If this were true, under US law, we would possibly still have interracial marriage bans in place and prisoners in many places that have a possibility of parole would not be able to marry. The SCOTUS has ruled otherwise on this issue.
    Race is protected under the constitution. Interracial marriage between a man and woman was ruled unconstitutional. I'm all for putting up an amendment that protects sexuality or says that it's gender equality to deny marriage rights to women x women and men x men. Under the current law though it's all up to the states and it is their right.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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