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Are We Being Ripped OFF?

What Do You Think?


  • Total voters
    13

grip

Slow 🅖 Hand
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I've seen this Ad (Power4Home) for a "DIY home solar/wind power instruction build kit". The guy is an electrician who claims we're being gouged by the gov & electric companies because they can. According to him the average Joe/Jane can build an alternative energy supply with home made solar panels and a wind turbine.

Is it possible that for $200+ and windpower we could be eliminating electric bills, saving the environment and reducing our dependence on coal and the grid?
 
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My AP Environmental Science teacher started doing this a few years ago. Put solar panels on his house, had his plumbing changed somehow to make it so the water heater is used less. He said that for an noticable difference to be felt (basically once everything pays for itself) you will need to be in the house for a few years. Granted he changed a lot, not simply adding in windpower.
 
My AP Environmental Science teacher started doing this a few years ago. Put solar panels on his house, had his plumbing changed somehow to make it so the water heater is used less. He said that for an noticable difference to be felt (basically once everything pays for itself) you will need to be in the house for a few years. Granted he changed a lot, not simply adding in windpower.


Apparently ADDing solar panels alone is not enough to cover all the electric needs. It must take more than the average roof holds on one side or it's simply too expensive to be cost effective for years. But the AD I posted says you can build better, cheaper panels yourself from the hardware store. And even a few (4-8?) panels will cut the bill 2/3rd's.

Where I live almost every other house has a few solar panels now. Some are black PVC pipes for heated pools and others just for the hot water heater, which is a huge drain on the electric bill. I installed a water heater with 10 less gallons of water from 40 to 30 and saved an average of 1/3 off my electric bill.
 
I've seen this Ad (Power4Home) for a "DIY home solar/wind power instruction build kit". The guy is an electrician who claims we're being gouged by the gov & electric companies because they can. According to him the average Joe/Jane can build an alternative energy supply with home made solar panels and a wind turbine.

Is it possible that for $200+ and windpower we could be eliminating electric bills, saving the environment and reducing our dependence on coal and the grid?
"
Is it possible that for $200+ and windpower we could be eliminating electric bills, saving the environment and reducing our dependence on coal and the grid?"

Yes, but for $200 you could not be eliminating very much. The first rule is to insulate a home like a walk-in cooler. including the basement. After you have reduce your power needs to a minimum, then build a small windmill with a four foot prop, buy perhaps 130 watts of solar PV from Harbor Freight ($500), a large number of small inverters ($50 each) to convert DC to AC because the windmills and PV charge batteries to store your power to use when you actually need it. You'll need 4 or 5 storage batteries ($100 each). The largest need is hot water and that can be for heating and potable use. Buy a small gasoline powered electric generator ($400) and plumb the exhaust pipe into a hot water heater ($160). That will give you lots of hot water and you can run your large electric demand (motorized, refrig, washer) items while the generator is running and the excess can charge the batteries. 75% of the energy from each gallon of gas is waste heat out the exhaust, so this little item makes big power and savings. Also switch light bulbs to LEDs. If you do all of these things you will no longer need the Electric company, but I think the cost will exceed $200. Nevertheless, even $200 can do small things. That's the best I can explain this simply.
 
I've seen this Ad (Power4Home) for a "DIY home solar/wind power instruction build kit". The guy is an electrician who claims we're being gouged by the gov & electric companies because they can. According to him the average Joe/Jane can build an alternative energy supply with home made solar panels and a wind turbine.

Is it possible that for $200+ and windpower we could be eliminating electric bills, saving the environment and reducing our dependence on coal and the grid?

Of course we're being gouged - becaue they can. I don't know about anything else he's stated but it's an obvious truth.

If everyone in my town pays the same amount of electricity that I do (for fun let's say - $150/month on average in a year) . . . x 2,500 some odd residents = $375,000 per resident *per month* paid for electricity . . . nevermind the number of businesses that use electricity also (maybe 30 businesses in his small town) . . . so $375,000 x 12 = $4,500,000 (4 million 500 thousand) per year - just for my small town.

Damn! I wish I didnt' do that to myself just now.
 
The had an article the other day about homeowners disgusted...few years ago they spent a fortune on solar being installed...yanno the sunshine state and all that...and they were sold a bill of goods...from what the article said they willnever get thier money back...showed a picture of one house that entire one side of the roof was panels...
 
I thoroughly investigated having my home run on solar power. As it tuned out for an initial investment of approximatley $60,000 I would have a portion of my home run on solar power and the rest would be on what I already have. I use wood, oil and electricity. Thereafter, I would get my initial investment back, assuming there were no replacements of solar panels, in 30 years or so IIRC.



There was just no real incentive to convert or have this done to my house. Yes we are being gouged by every means of power except wood in my case I chop it myself ...:)
 
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It's horse crap.

You can NOT do away with your electric bills with $200 worth of solar and/or wind turbine power... Unless maybe you only want to have electricity for one or two light bulbs.


Start up solar costs are high, typically in the tens of thousands of dollars to run a small efficient house on. Wind turbines are only cost-efficient in certain areas, and even then they have maintenance issues that make them problematic... and the wind don't always blow.

He's a con man.
 
I think the correct answer is "it cost too much out of pocket to initially set up a solar system." So this guy is most likely selling a con.

Though there are some good ideas here like "insulating the house better" a proven method to save energy. Add fiberglass to the attic and have the windows sealed and covered in summer and exposed in winter. Smaller hot water tank (if possible), cfl light bulbs, energy star appliances, wood burning heating systems, more efficient cooking devices. I bought a small infrared oven no bigger than a microwave that has replaced 90% of my oven preparations. Want see your power meter spin like crazy? Cook something in the oven and go watch the dial turn like a hamster wheel.

Using these and other techniques you'd be amazed how much you can cut your bill.
 
I found a 1175kw Westinghouse Solar Kit on Ebay for $4700, plus you get a 30% (-$1000) Energy Efficiency tax credit off from the Feds. Also about $200 for conduit, combiner box, wire for home run and AC disconnect. Installers can cost more than the system, so it's best to get a DIY type like this Westinghouse Instant Connect with 80% less parts than other systems. Something like this is a fully-integrated plug-and-play system that with the help of a friend or off work electrician could easily set up.

My house 1770 sq ft, averages between 1200 and 1500kw, so a system like the one above would save me almost the entire cost of my electric bill, paying for the system in about 2 yrs. Not as bad as some professional installers want to charge $30k - $60K.
 
I found a 1175kw Westinghouse Solar Kit on Ebay for $4700, plus you get a 30% (-$1000) Energy Efficiency tax credit off from the Feds. Also about $200 for conduit, combiner box, wire for home run and AC disconnect. Installers can cost more than the system, so it's best to get a DIY type like this Westinghouse Instant Connect with 80% less parts than other systems. Something like this is a fully-integrated plug-and-play system that with the help of a friend or off work electrician could easily set up.

My house 1770 sq ft, averages between 1200 and 1500kw, so a system like the one above would save me almost the entire cost of my electric bill, paying for the system in about 2 yrs. Not as bad as some professional installers want to charge $30k - $60K.
1200-1500kw? Do you mean 1200-1500kWh/month?
 
1200-1500kw? Do you mean 1200-1500kWh/month?

Yes kWh, I'm not all that savvy on this electric lingo....lol

From the info I read though the amount of wattage needed was similar to the kW number, I think?
 
Yes kWh, I'm not all that savvy on this electric lingo....lol

From the info I read though the amount of wattage needed was similar to the kW number, I think?

So, if you use 1500 kwh in 30 days (an approximate month), then you use 50 kwh per day. A 2000 watt (4 horsepower) generator running 24 hours per day would give you 48kwh. If you collected the waste heat in the generator's exhaust (144 kwh per day equivalence), you would have sufficient hot water to heat your home, so you could shut your heating system down, and enough hot water for potable use, so you could shut your hot water heater down. What would be your load requirement with these items shut down? This waste heat problem is the reason the electricity that the Utilities sell you is so expensive. Nobody talks about this problem because it always leads to a solution at the local level and that is de-Centralization of an existing power monopoly. The only viable long term solution is de-Centraliztion for both practical economic solutions and a serious approach to the mitigation of Global Warming.
 
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So, if you use 1500 kwh in 30 days (an approximate month), then you use 50 kwh per day. A 2000 watt (4 horsepower) generator running 24 hours per day would give you 48kwh. If you collected the waste heat in the generator's exhaust (144 kwh per day equivalence), you would have sufficient hot water to heat your home, so you could shut your heating system down, and enough hot water for potable use, so you could shut your hot water heater down. What would be your load requirement with these items shut down? This waste heat problem is the reason the electricity that the Utilities sell you is so expensive. Nobody talks about this problem because it always leads to a solution at the local level and that is de-Centralization of an existing power monopoly. The only viable long term solution is de-Centraliztion for both practical economic solutions and a serious approach to the mitigation of Global Warming.

You know something is wrong with the configuration of power consumption. I've got a 5000w gas (7 gal-12hrs) generator and it supposedly will only run a small 5000btu window AC, fridge, tv and few lights. It won't run my central AC and full household electric needs. I just found another site that says you need a 5kW solar array for a $200 a month electric bill.

It's this site (> Solar Power Estimate <) that has the Power Estimates and solar kit prices. So I am a little confused as to the kW needed and if it's because the 1500kWh is an average not including PEAK usage, which may run up to 4-5kW at a time during the day.

I do agree that the home/apt builders could easily supply and install at a much lower cost every new house and commercial buildings with solar electric supply, taking essentially all new construction off the grid. It would be a major economic savings for average people, help tremendously with clean air and insuring a much safer alternative to an EMP catastrophe.

When I found out that the original Edison light bulb still burns in the Smithsonian Institute and that industry could make shoes, dishware, tires, plastics and other items that never wear out but don't because there's no "turn over" of product, then I knew our society favored greed over efficiency and waste. Look at the old cars, watches and appliances that are still able to be fixed up compared to today's throw away crap. Some bunch of smart aleck 30yr old executives with the morals of snakes figure out how to cheapen down everything for the bottom line and their quarterly bonuses.
 
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You know something is wrong with the configuration of power consumption. I've got a 5000w gas (7 gal-12hrs) generator and it supposedly will only run a small 5000btu window AC, fridge, tv and few lights. It won't run my central AC and full household electric needs. I just found another site that says you need a 5kW solar array for a $200 a month electric bill.

It's this site (> Solar Power Estimate <) that has the Power Estimates and solar kit prices. So I am a little confused as to the kW needed and if it's because the 1500kWh is an average not including PEAK usage, which may run up to 4-5kW at a time during the day.

I do agree that the home/apt builders could easily supply and install at a much lower cost every new house and commercial buildings with solar electric supply, taking essentially all new construction off the grid. It would be a major economic savings for average people, help tremendously with clean air and insuring a much safer alternative to an EMP catastrophe.

When I found out that the original Edison light bulb still burns in the Smithsonian Institute and that industry could make shoes, dishware, tires, plastics and other items that never wear out but don't because there's no "turn over" of product, then I knew our society favored greed over efficiency and waste. Look at the old cars, watches and appliances that are still able to be fixed up compared to today's throw away crap. Some bunch of smart aleck 30yr old executives with the morals of snakes figure out how to cheapen down everything for the bottom line and their quarterly bonuses.

"I've got a 5000w gas (7 gal-12hrs) generator"

This same 5000w (per hour) generator is sending the equivalent of 15,000w (per hour) out the exhaust pipe. Use the heat instad of wasting 3 times more power than you're be using. Once one starts doing this all the demand figures change and fall in line with wonderful efficiency. It does require a more involved lifestyle in your energy arena. OTOH, you can just allow Global Warming to cook your grandkids. Your choice.
 
My favorite home energy saving invention (also a huge rip off) is the solar clothes dryer. It is a fancy cardboard box, selling for $19.99 + PH, touting the amount of money wasted by the poor, average and super efficient gas/eletric clothes dryers commonly used in homes, your savings are guaranteed to be 100% of that amount. Inside the box is 30' of 1/4 inch nylon rope, 40 common wooden clothes pins and installation/operating instructions. ;-)
 
Anybody who lives in a sunny place where there isn't a ton of snow and owns their house is a fool if they don't have solar panels up on the roof yet. There are companies that you tell your average monthly power bill, they come and install solar panels on your roof, and charge you the same amount as your power company used to until the panels are paid off. So, it doesn't cost you anything. And then you have free power for the life of the panels which could be decades. A lot of places you'll have the panels paid off in just 6 or 7 years without paying any more than you would have paid the the power company even for those years. The big leap forward was that power companies set it up so that you can stay on the grid and your panels just feed excess power back into the grid during the day when power is the most expensive, and the meter runs backwards. Then at night, you draw power back out of the grid when it's cheaper. So even if you don't generate quite enough power for your needs, that differential usually makes up the gap. You can even make a profit doing it. The power company will send you a check each month instead of a bill if you fed more power back into the grid than you took out.

I know a number of folks in California who had the panels put in years ago, just paid the solar company like they used to pay the power company, and now they have free power and don't owe anybody anything for their power. A couple of them get a check back from the power company each month. California is probably just about the ideal place to do it. The temperatures are pretty mild, so you don't have huge heating or air conditioning costs, and you get tons of sun. It isn't quite as sweet of a deal everywhere. If you live further north where you get less sun and need to worry about clearing snow off the panels it might be a closer call, but it still is usually a good way to save money. Wherever you live, you should put some thought into which way the slope of your roof faces and whether trees block the sun and whatnot, because if you happen to have a good setup for it, it's totally a no-brainer to do it.
 
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I've seen this Ad (Power4Home) for a "DIY home solar/wind power instruction build kit". The guy is an electrician who claims we're being gouged by the gov & electric companies because they can. According to him the average Joe/Jane can build an alternative energy supply with home made solar panels and a wind turbine.

Is it possible that for $200+ and windpower we could be eliminating electric bills, saving the environment and reducing our dependence on coal and the grid?

lol.... last time I checked you cannot even buy the DC to AC converter for 200.00, a 100 watt panel is about 150.00 Each

I think it was about 35k for my modest house, without installation labor
 
I found a 1175kw Westinghouse Solar Kit on Ebay for $4700, plus you get a 30% (-$1000) Energy Efficiency tax credit off from the Feds. Also about $200 for conduit, combiner box, wire for home run and AC disconnect. Installers can cost more than the system, so it's best to get a DIY type like this Westinghouse Instant Connect with 80% less parts than other systems. Something like this is a fully-integrated plug-and-play system that with the help of a friend or off work electrician could easily set up.

My house 1770 sq ft, averages between 1200 and 1500kw, so a system like the one above would save me almost the entire cost of my electric bill, paying for the system in about 2 yrs. Not as bad as some professional installers want to charge $30k - $60K.

Grip, the Ebay add is misleading, that is 1,175 Watts

My computer eats 475 watts :)

If you are all gas for cooking and hot water, you may be able to run your computer and a few lights, but don't turn on the Computer, a Light and the TV at the same time.

But forget ever running an air conditioner....... they are 6,500 watts just by themselves at 230 volt, 1,750 watts for little window units

The fan motor in a gas furnace is at least 750 watts

Deceptive advertising, don't you just love ebay :)
 
Grip, the Ebay add is misleading, that is 1,175 Watts

My computer eats 475 watts :)

If you are all gas for cooking and hot water, you may be able to run your computer and a few lights, but don't turn on the Computer, a Light and the TV at the same time.

But forget ever running an air conditioner....... they are 6,500 watts just by themselves at 230 volt, 1,750 watts for little window units

The fan motor in a gas furnace is at least 750 watts

Deceptive advertising, don't you just love ebay :)

I knew something was off with those power ratings when I saw another solar company say you need 5kw worth of panels to run a $200 month electric bill. The reality is probably more like 10-15kW worth of solar panels for an 1800 sq ft house. The article said match your kWh rating from your electric bill with the wattage needed for your panels but I don't think it works out that way?
 
"I've got a 5000w gas (7 gal-12hrs) generator"

This same 5000w (per hour) generator is sending the equivalent of 15,000w (per hour) out the exhaust pipe. Use the heat instad of wasting 3 times more power than you're be using. Once one starts doing this all the demand figures change and fall in line with wonderful efficiency. It does require a more involved lifestyle in your energy arena. OTOH, you can just allow Global Warming to cook your grandkids. Your choice.
Either way you cannot produce more energy than what is consumed.
 
Either way you cannot produce more energy than what is consumed.
Of course you can..
Certain more advanced states have programs where their electric company "buys" excess energy produced at a home site..
As far as "ripped off" goes - yes ..business for ages has been doing this....But its really mans greed which is "self-ripping".
 
Of course you can..
Certain more advanced states have programs where their electric company "buys" excess energy produced at a home site..
As far as "ripped off" goes - yes ..business for ages has been doing this....But its really mans greed which is "self-ripping".
lol New Mexico is one of those states, but I wouldnt call us advanced.

Anyway I was saying that you must expend energy to acquire energy output. No matter what you cannot get more energy out of something than what you put in.
 
Just some notes:
1) I've never seen a house insulated property. I just had my attic insulation redone in our MI home and it wasn't done correctly. They came back and redid it, but got a bit of insulation in my heater's intake vent causing a failure there that was hard to find.
2) I've never seen hot water piped correctly in a house considering insulation, flow and energy use.
3) I've never seen ventilation done correctly for heating and or cooling.
4) I've seen air handlers insulated so poorly but installed in extremely hot attics of Arizona homes.
5) Using a timer on your water heater is an easy way to save. I have one on my forced air propane water heater.
6) Just getting my solar hot water heater correctly installed after I discovered what the pros did incorrectly was a pain. The major error was the collector was installed level instead of tilted a few degrees causing corrosion and leaking after a few years.
7) The design of a home in Phoenix leaves approximately 30 sq. ft. of hallway ceiling not insulated.

Only a few can save energy and it's not easy.
 
Just some notes:
1) I've never seen a house insulated property. I just had my attic insulation redone in our MI home and it wasn't done correctly. They came back and redid it, but got a bit of insulation in my heater's intake vent causing a failure there that was hard to find.
2) I've never seen hot water piped correctly in a house considering insulation, flow and energy use.
3) I've never seen ventilation done correctly for heating and or cooling.
4) I've seen air handlers insulated so poorly but installed in extremely hot attics of Arizona homes.
5) Using a timer on your water heater is an easy way to save. I have one on my forced air propane water heater.
6) Just getting my solar hot water heater correctly installed after I discovered what the pros did incorrectly was a pain. The major error was the collector was installed level instead of tilted a few degrees causing corrosion and leaking after a few years.
7) The design of a home in Phoenix leaves approximately 30 sq. ft. of hallway ceiling not insulated.

Only a few can save energy and it's not easy.


Theres new sprayed insulation that STICKS its not fluffy like balls of pink insulation they used to blow in...this stuff sticks to what it hits and yyou can move it and put it back and the R factor is very high...I just had 30+ rfactor blown in my attic and it covered the duct work also.
I put a timer on my hot water heater...my plumber tells me its a waste of time...I said why...he said savings are minimal if any.
Some of the biggest offenders...is leaky windows, most people buy a home and never re caulk around the outside of their windows to stop leaks... To my knowledge there is no way to route hot water pipes correctly...most dont insulate hotwater pipes running through your house because any on the outside wall have insulation already and inside walls dont really need it.
High R fact central AC and really efficient furnace burners help dramatically....one thing that I have that helps in fla...I have a solar powered attic fan that uses zero electric and keeps the temp down in the attic to 90 degrees...sounds like alot not in fla..lol
 
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