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Thread: Are We Being Ripped OFF?

  1. #11
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    Re: Are We Being Ripped OFF?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I found a 1175kw Westinghouse Solar Kit on Ebay for $4700, plus you get a 30% (-$1000) Energy Efficiency tax credit off from the Feds. Also about $200 for conduit, combiner box, wire for home run and AC disconnect. Installers can cost more than the system, so it's best to get a DIY type like this Westinghouse Instant Connect with 80% less parts than other systems. Something like this is a fully-integrated plug-and-play system that with the help of a friend or off work electrician could easily set up.

    My house 1770 sq ft, averages between 1200 and 1500kw, so a system like the one above would save me almost the entire cost of my electric bill, paying for the system in about 2 yrs. Not as bad as some professional installers want to charge $30k - $60K.
    1200-1500kw? Do you mean 1200-1500kWh/month?
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  2. #12
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    Re: Are We Being Ripped OFF?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    1200-1500kw? Do you mean 1200-1500kWh/month?
    Yes kWh, I'm not all that savvy on this electric lingo....lol

    From the info I read though the amount of wattage needed was similar to the kW number, I think?
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  3. #13
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    Re: Are We Being Ripped OFF?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Yes kWh, I'm not all that savvy on this electric lingo....lol

    From the info I read though the amount of wattage needed was similar to the kW number, I think?
    So, if you use 1500 kwh in 30 days (an approximate month), then you use 50 kwh per day. A 2000 watt (4 horsepower) generator running 24 hours per day would give you 48kwh. If you collected the waste heat in the generator's exhaust (144 kwh per day equivalence), you would have sufficient hot water to heat your home, so you could shut your heating system down, and enough hot water for potable use, so you could shut your hot water heater down. What would be your load requirement with these items shut down? This waste heat problem is the reason the electricity that the Utilities sell you is so expensive. Nobody talks about this problem because it always leads to a solution at the local level and that is de-Centralization of an existing power monopoly. The only viable long term solution is de-Centraliztion for both practical economic solutions and a serious approach to the mitigation of Global Warming.
    Last edited by DaveFagan; 05-26-12 at 01:40 PM.

  4. #14
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    Re: Are We Being Ripped OFF?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    So, if you use 1500 kwh in 30 days (an approximate month), then you use 50 kwh per day. A 2000 watt (4 horsepower) generator running 24 hours per day would give you 48kwh. If you collected the waste heat in the generator's exhaust (144 kwh per day equivalence), you would have sufficient hot water to heat your home, so you could shut your heating system down, and enough hot water for potable use, so you could shut your hot water heater down. What would be your load requirement with these items shut down? This waste heat problem is the reason the electricity that the Utilities sell you is so expensive. Nobody talks about this problem because it always leads to a solution at the local level and that is de-Centralization of an existing power monopoly. The only viable long term solution is de-Centraliztion for both practical economic solutions and a serious approach to the mitigation of Global Warming.
    You know something is wrong with the configuration of power consumption. I've got a 5000w gas (7 gal-12hrs) generator and it supposedly will only run a small 5000btu window AC, fridge, tv and few lights. It won't run my central AC and full household electric needs. I just found another site that says you need a 5kW solar array for a $200 a month electric bill.

    It's this site (> Solar Power Estimate <) that has the Power Estimates and solar kit prices. So I am a little confused as to the kW needed and if it's because the 1500kWh is an average not including PEAK usage, which may run up to 4-5kW at a time during the day.

    I do agree that the home/apt builders could easily supply and install at a much lower cost every new house and commercial buildings with solar electric supply, taking essentially all new construction off the grid. It would be a major economic savings for average people, help tremendously with clean air and insuring a much safer alternative to an EMP catastrophe.

    When I found out that the original Edison light bulb still burns in the Smithsonian Institute and that industry could make shoes, dishware, tires, plastics and other items that never wear out but don't because there's no "turn over" of product, then I knew our society favored greed over efficiency and waste. Look at the old cars, watches and appliances that are still able to be fixed up compared to today's throw away crap. Some bunch of smart aleck 30yr old executives with the morals of snakes figure out how to cheapen down everything for the bottom line and their quarterly bonuses.
    Last edited by grip; 05-26-12 at 02:14 PM.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Are We Being Ripped OFF?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You know something is wrong with the configuration of power consumption. I've got a 5000w gas (7 gal-12hrs) generator and it supposedly will only run a small 5000btu window AC, fridge, tv and few lights. It won't run my central AC and full household electric needs. I just found another site that says you need a 5kW solar array for a $200 a month electric bill.

    It's this site (> Solar Power Estimate <) that has the Power Estimates and solar kit prices. So I am a little confused as to the kW needed and if it's because the 1500kWh is an average not including PEAK usage, which may run up to 4-5kW at a time during the day.

    I do agree that the home/apt builders could easily supply and install at a much lower cost every new house and commercial buildings with solar electric supply, taking essentially all new construction off the grid. It would be a major economic savings for average people, help tremendously with clean air and insuring a much safer alternative to an EMP catastrophe.

    When I found out that the original Edison light bulb still burns in the Smithsonian Institute and that industry could make shoes, dishware, tires, plastics and other items that never wear out but don't because there's no "turn over" of product, then I knew our society favored greed over efficiency and waste. Look at the old cars, watches and appliances that are still able to be fixed up compared to today's throw away crap. Some bunch of smart aleck 30yr old executives with the morals of snakes figure out how to cheapen down everything for the bottom line and their quarterly bonuses.
    "I've got a 5000w gas (7 gal-12hrs) generator"

    This same 5000w (per hour) generator is sending the equivalent of 15,000w (per hour) out the exhaust pipe. Use the heat instad of wasting 3 times more power than you're be using. Once one starts doing this all the demand figures change and fall in line with wonderful efficiency. It does require a more involved lifestyle in your energy arena. OTOH, you can just allow Global Warming to cook your grandkids. Your choice.

  6. #16
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    Re: Are We Being Ripped OFF?

    My favorite home energy saving invention (also a huge rip off) is the solar clothes dryer. It is a fancy cardboard box, selling for $19.99 + PH, touting the amount of money wasted by the poor, average and super efficient gas/eletric clothes dryers commonly used in homes, your savings are guaranteed to be 100% of that amount. Inside the box is 30' of 1/4 inch nylon rope, 40 common wooden clothes pins and installation/operating instructions. ;-)
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #17
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    Re: Are We Being Ripped OFF?

    Anybody who lives in a sunny place where there isn't a ton of snow and owns their house is a fool if they don't have solar panels up on the roof yet. There are companies that you tell your average monthly power bill, they come and install solar panels on your roof, and charge you the same amount as your power company used to until the panels are paid off. So, it doesn't cost you anything. And then you have free power for the life of the panels which could be decades. A lot of places you'll have the panels paid off in just 6 or 7 years without paying any more than you would have paid the the power company even for those years. The big leap forward was that power companies set it up so that you can stay on the grid and your panels just feed excess power back into the grid during the day when power is the most expensive, and the meter runs backwards. Then at night, you draw power back out of the grid when it's cheaper. So even if you don't generate quite enough power for your needs, that differential usually makes up the gap. You can even make a profit doing it. The power company will send you a check each month instead of a bill if you fed more power back into the grid than you took out.

    I know a number of folks in California who had the panels put in years ago, just paid the solar company like they used to pay the power company, and now they have free power and don't owe anybody anything for their power. A couple of them get a check back from the power company each month. California is probably just about the ideal place to do it. The temperatures are pretty mild, so you don't have huge heating or air conditioning costs, and you get tons of sun. It isn't quite as sweet of a deal everywhere. If you live further north where you get less sun and need to worry about clearing snow off the panels it might be a closer call, but it still is usually a good way to save money. Wherever you live, you should put some thought into which way the slope of your roof faces and whether trees block the sun and whatnot, because if you happen to have a good setup for it, it's totally a no-brainer to do it.
    Last edited by teamosil; 05-26-12 at 07:17 PM.
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  8. #18
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    Re: Are We Being Ripped OFF?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I've seen this Ad (Power4Home) for a "DIY home solar/wind power instruction build kit". The guy is an electrician who claims we're being gouged by the gov & electric companies because they can. According to him the average Joe/Jane can build an alternative energy supply with home made solar panels and a wind turbine.

    Is it possible that for $200+ and windpower we could be eliminating electric bills, saving the environment and reducing our dependence on coal and the grid?
    lol.... last time I checked you cannot even buy the DC to AC converter for 200.00, a 100 watt panel is about 150.00 Each

    I think it was about 35k for my modest house, without installation labor
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  9. #19
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    Re: Are We Being Ripped OFF?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I found a 1175kw Westinghouse Solar Kit on Ebay for $4700, plus you get a 30% (-$1000) Energy Efficiency tax credit off from the Feds. Also about $200 for conduit, combiner box, wire for home run and AC disconnect. Installers can cost more than the system, so it's best to get a DIY type like this Westinghouse Instant Connect with 80% less parts than other systems. Something like this is a fully-integrated plug-and-play system that with the help of a friend or off work electrician could easily set up.

    My house 1770 sq ft, averages between 1200 and 1500kw, so a system like the one above would save me almost the entire cost of my electric bill, paying for the system in about 2 yrs. Not as bad as some professional installers want to charge $30k - $60K.
    Grip, the Ebay add is misleading, that is 1,175 Watts

    My computer eats 475 watts

    If you are all gas for cooking and hot water, you may be able to run your computer and a few lights, but don't turn on the Computer, a Light and the TV at the same time.

    But forget ever running an air conditioner....... they are 6,500 watts just by themselves at 230 volt, 1,750 watts for little window units

    The fan motor in a gas furnace is at least 750 watts

    Deceptive advertising, don't you just love ebay
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  10. #20
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    Re: Are We Being Ripped OFF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snake_Plissken View Post
    Grip, the Ebay add is misleading, that is 1,175 Watts

    My computer eats 475 watts

    If you are all gas for cooking and hot water, you may be able to run your computer and a few lights, but don't turn on the Computer, a Light and the TV at the same time.

    But forget ever running an air conditioner....... they are 6,500 watts just by themselves at 230 volt, 1,750 watts for little window units

    The fan motor in a gas furnace is at least 750 watts

    Deceptive advertising, don't you just love ebay
    I knew something was off with those power ratings when I saw another solar company say you need 5kw worth of panels to run a $200 month electric bill. The reality is probably more like 10-15kW worth of solar panels for an 1800 sq ft house. The article said match your kWh rating from your electric bill with the wattage needed for your panels but I don't think it works out that way?
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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