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Taser Use

Is using a taser to arrest a noncoperative but nonviolent person "excessive force"


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Redress there is no answer to the question where is the line drawn...the answer is the line is drawn at the time the incident is in progress and the cop makes the decision on the fly what his course of action is....
All depts are different...so im on the spot here...I can only speak from my experience based on my depts sop...I cant speak for other depts that have differing SOPs that the operate under...thats where alot of confusion comes in with caine and I when in these kinds of threads...
There is no cookie cutter answers most of the time...your dealing with SITUATIONAL decision making...not cut and dried rules and regulations...each decision is based on a set of rules with the final decsion being made by the actions of the moment....I hope that made sense

LP...I do want to thank you for actually inputting your opinions as you were a cop. I think it shows that a lot of people disagree with certain issues, but I certainly can respect someone expressing their side of the story. This explanation actually does make sense to me.

My preferred line is violence, but that can be skewed as well in certain situation where you are trying to define what is the amount of violence to use force. Is it slight resistance continually, or full on thrusting resistance? What is the crime or violation committed? Does it warrant force?

Different situations have different answers and I certainly can agree to that.
 
Taser Pain May Be Considered by Supreme Court as Excessive Force - Yahoo! News

She sued the cops, and right now has won the suit, however the cops where granted immunity due to the law being considered too vague. Thursday SCOTUS meets to decide whether to hear the case.

So, now the question: the woman was no threat and was simply refusing to comply. In that type situation, is the inflicting of intense pain a violation of the constitution? A further question that does not translate well to a poll so just type out an answer...where does the line get drawn? When are police justified in using a taser, and when is it excessive?
People should not be tased unless they become violent. Merely refusing to comply is not violence and therefore, tasing someone who does so is excessive force.
 
Violent means should not be used on non-violent individuals. So yeah, it was execessive force.

At one point if I recall correctly the electric chair was considered cruel and inhumane and as such could no longer be used, because of the pain that it inflicted. So besides the difference of death (though tasers can cause death it is mainly accidental when used by police)...just what IS the difference? If we're not allowed to use electricity on the condemned why would it be acceptable to use it on someone that is intended to live?

I disagree it was not excessive force...she was placed under arrest and refused to comply...there was no choice left but to use force to get her into custody. Now having said that...I believe as a once supervisor of alot of people..that this entire incident should have been avoided by merely putting in the sig line ...driver refused to sign and have the cop intial it or sign below it...that would have been accepted in any court..
Why he didnt do that I cant say..I dont know if thats a strict sop of his dept...I know when I was on duty my people knew that if they werent sure and they had time <no violence or crowd control problems> to call me and I would give them direction..I dont know why they didnt put this on their supervisor..thats what supervisors are for...they had plenty of time to call and get direction
 
People should not be tased unless they become violent. Merely refusing to comply is not violence and therefore, tasing someone who does so is excessive force.

So, you're bound by law to take her into custody. She won't get out of the car. What do you do?
 
LP...I do want to thank you for actually inputting your opinions as you were a cop. I think it shows that a lot of people disagree with certain issues, but I certainly can respect someone expressing their side of the story. This explanation actually does make sense to me.

My preferred line is violence, but that can be skewed as well in certain situation where you are trying to define what is the amount of violence to use force. Is it slight resistance continually, or full on thrusting resistance? What is the crime or violation committed? Does it warrant force?

Different situations have different answers and I certainly can agree to that.

I apologize to you..I get cranky over these threads because I think ive been in a couple of million of them and I just get GAH..sometimes..its my own fault for responding to it and I know it and the GAH was meant for me....lol...
 
You missed a whole lot of points of the issue...basically what you said is right...and court is where you will be...if you refuse to comply to my orders...your going whether you like it or not...PERIOD....I know some alphas males think they are the top of the food chain...they learn they are not..even if its temporary...
This is a pretty poor attitude for a cop to have. Moreover, your posts thus far sound like those of alpha male who thinks they are on top of the food chain. Turns out there are many cops in jail or on trial who learned they aren't either.
 
So, you're bound by law to take her into custody. She won't get out of the car. What do you do?


When it comes to police some people are just totally unreasonable...once your placed under arrest...you are going one way or another...man, women, teenager, granny...and the sad part is they know they have to go and they know the cops arent going to change their mind because your refusing to go...so they make their beds most of the time...if they complied and they were falsely arrested they can sue...
 
So, you're bound by law to take her into custody. She won't get out of the car. What do you do?
Not tase her. Open the door, attempt to pull her out of the car and if she gets violent, then tase her. However, I get the feeling that if you have several male cops, you can get a woman out of a car without needing a taser.
 
This is a pretty poor attitude for a cop to have. Moreover, your posts thus far sound like those of alpha male who thinks they are on top of the food chain. Turns out there are many cops in jail or on trial who learned they aren't either.

My attitude carried me through 28 yrs and moved me up the ranks and never once in 28 yrs was I convicted of any wrong doing or recieved any disciplinary citations for my actions...So I can say with conviction you know not what you speak of...you just want something negative to say to your favorite poster on DPF lpast...lol....grain of salt dude...just a grain of salt..
 
You missed a whole lot of points of the issue...basically what you said is right...and court is where you will be...if you refuse to comply to my orders...your going whether you like it or not...PERIOD....I know some alphas males think they are the top of the food chain...they learn they are not..even if its temporary...
you sound like the very type of cop I dislike.... always on a power trip.
 
Redress there is no answer to the question where is the line drawn...the answer is the line is drawn at the time the incident is in progress and the cop makes the decision on the fly what his course of action is....
All depts are different...so im on the spot here...I can only speak from my experience based on my depts sop...I cant speak for other depts that have differing SOPs that the operate under...thats where alot of confusion comes in with caine and I when in these kinds of threads...
There is no cookie cutter answers most of the time...your dealing with SITUATIONAL decision making...not cut and dried rules and regulations...each decision is based on a set of rules with the final decsion being made by the actions of the moment....I hope that made sense

Our legal system does not work that way however. The courts have to make a determination of when it is excessive and when not. There are numerous cases of courts awarding damages to people who have been tasered by the police. So the need is there for a clear line to be drawn on the issue.
 
I know this sounds harsh and PEOPLE HATE THESE WORDS...I know that...but you have to comply, you dont have a choice and we wont give you one, once your placed under arrest...

Except I gave an example of where this is not the case.
 
Not tase her. Open the door, attempt to pull her out of the car and if she gets violent, then tase her. However, I get the feeling that if you have several male cops, you can get a woman out of a car without needing a taser.

Ahh again the clueless exudes from tween your lips...if she wasnt tased...she would have been snatched and dragged out of the vehicle kicking and screaming and thats why people get hurt the most....keep in mind this one point that you hate :) she was placed under arrest...and once that decision is made...YOUR GOING one way or another lol....ok im done with this...
 
This is a pretty poor attitude for a cop to have. Moreover, your posts thus far sound like those of alpha male who thinks they are on top of the food chain. Turns out there are many cops in jail or on trial who learned they aren't either.

If you spent any time working the streets, you'd understand exactly where that attitude comes from. Frankly, I'd rather have an alpha male for a cop than a criminal, any day of the week. Being a cop (or paramedic/firefighter), you deal with the very worst of humanity. My hat's off to anyone who can put up with it as a career.
 
People should not be tased unless they become violent. Merely refusing to comply is not violence and therefore, tasing someone who does so is excessive force.

OK, let me give an example: people are sitting in the doorway of a business as part of a protest, clearly trespassing. The police order them to leave, they refuse. They have their arms linked so just physically picking them up would be difficult at best. They are nonviolent. How do you get them to disperse or arrest them?
 
No, cops are people of many people's hatred because there are personalities out there who instinctively fight all authority, legit or not.
No, it has nothing to do with the few bully cops who beat people they've arrested, it has nothing to do with stories like this, it has nothing to do with actually crappy cops with crappy attitudes or with cops who don't do their jobs in minority neighborhoods or any of that. It's just about people who fight authority.

What a crock of ****.

The only argument you can make, which I agree with by the way, is that it's irrational to generalize about cops being all bad based on the few bad ones that ruin their name. However, you cannot argue that people have a problem with cops just because they "fight all authority" and not because they have legitimate reasons to dislike them based on their own experiences.
 
Not tase her. Open the door, attempt to pull her out of the car and if she gets violent, then tase her. However, I get the feeling that if you have several male cops, you can get a woman out of a car without needing a taser.

Obviously they had already tried to pull her out and she resisted. They were then faced with forcibly yanking her out and flinging her onto the ground to be cuffed. She was 7 months pregnant. I ask again... this woman who created this situation, escalated this situation, is now under arrest so she MUST be taken into the station and booked... how do you safely get her out if she refuses to comply?

They handled it the way they felt best, and we... as usual, lol... are second-guessing them without the benefit of knowing all the details. Any way you slice it, the entire situation was completely her fault, and her fault alone.

These are basically your options: Yank her out and throw her to the ground; mace her; hit her with the baton; tase her.
 
Ahh again the clueless exudes from tween your lips...if she wasnt tased...she would have been snatched and dragged out of the vehicle kicking and screaming and thats why people get hurt the most....keep in mind this one point that you hate :) she was placed under arrest...and once that decision is made...YOUR GOING one way or another lol....ok im done with this...
I know she's going away one way or another. In fact, my post was discussing how to get her to go away, so I don't even understand your nonsensical response.
 
Our legal system does not work that way however. The courts have to make a determination of when it is excessive and when not. There are numerous cases of courts awarding damages to people who have been tasered by the police. So the need is there for a clear line to be drawn on the issue.

Of course no argument...the end result the final decision is made in court. Redress if we could know how many tasers are used in a 24 hour period across the entire country in every state...I think you would realize that cases that get to court a miniscule compared to the whole picture. People form opinions of police where they live...Police do not operate the same in every state every town...and what you read in the paper like this case...is a drop in the bucket compared to all that happens all over the country...the sheer amount of arrests..and incidents..
 
Not tase her. Open the door, attempt to pull her out of the car and if she gets violent, then tase her. However, I get the feeling that if you have several male cops, you can get a woman out of a car without needing a taser.

Note: the woman is 7 months pregnant. Trying to forcibly remove her could be a greater danger to her and her pregnancy than tasing.
 
you sound like the very type of cop I dislike.... always on a power trip.

Moderator's Warning:
Do not do this. Personal attacks need to not happen.
 
Not tase her. Open the door, attempt to pull her out of the car and if she gets violent, then tase her. However, I get the feeling that if you have several male cops, you can get a woman out of a car without needing a taser.

heh...ok...your right..
 
If you spent any time working the streets, you'd understand exactly where that attitude comes from. Frankly, I'd rather have an alpha male for a cop than a criminal, any day of the week. Being a cop (or paramedic/firefighter), you deal with the very worst of humanity. My hat's off to anyone who can put up with it as a career.
I understand where the attitude comes from. You spend your days dealing with bull**** and idiots, much of the public thinks you're a piece of crap, you have to deal with your own personal life, you aren't getting paid a whole lot and you have to balance all the other annoying and dangerous stuff that comes with the job. It's easy to understand, but understanding doesn't amount to me thinking that it's okay.
 
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