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Taser Use

Is using a taser to arrest a noncoperative but nonviolent person "excessive force"


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This article, "Taser Pain May Be Considered by Supreme Court as Excessive Force," made it seem that the Courts were considering whether or not taser pain [all taser pain?] would be considered excessive force. If that's not the case, alright.

So you read the headline and not the article but thought you where in a position to comment? I see.....
 
Alot of people dont like cops because they have alot of negative interaction with them...by breaking the law and being scumbags...:) They were always my favorite detractors and haters...:)

Is that quantifiable or just an assertion? I know quite a few people who dislike the cops not because they are breaking the law but rather they view the expansion of police powers against the rights and liberties of the individual to be sickening and dangerous. Also cops are far from the perfect sort of folk and often we hear about corruption and abuse (which has to make one think about how much corruption and abuse we don't hear about). The cops are an armed division of the government and should be treated with the same amount of distrust that government should receive.

Also, "a lot" is two words.
 
In this particular case, I'd say it was excessive and unnecessary. Given that she was pregnant particularly, and all she did was refuse to sign the ticket.


Personally I think the notion of arresting someone for refusing to sign a ticket is also excessive. Just write "subject refuses to sign ticket" and charge her an extra ten bucks for the bother.
 
In this particular case, I'd say it was excessive and unnecessary. Given that she was pregnant particularly, and all she did was refuse to sign the ticket.


Personally I think the notion of arresting someone for refusing to sign a ticket is also excessive. Just write "subject refuses to sign ticket" and charge her an extra ten bucks for the bother.
I see where you're at on the issue, but it is possible that she was so abusive verbally that the officer lost all compassion. It would have been easier for her to just sign the ticket and fight in court if she felt right.
 
Wow, this turned into a real crapfest.

Now what struck me is the apparent shallowness of training those claiming to be some sort of LE type appear to have. If I understand their levels it is shot 'em, baton 'em, punch 'em, tase 'em, pull on an arm and the lowest level, ask them to comply. I am rather shocked that they don't know 'better' than that. I got to play citizen during a Reserve Academy. VERY INTERESTING. The experts so far have failed to mention come along techniques, pressure points and instead of beating people with the baton, using it as additional leverage in various holds. (Boy howdy- it does work!)

I figure the cops in the OP must have had crappy apprehension and detention training. I can't see certified trainers saying it is safe to taze pregnant women in the neck. I can't see the trainers not teaching pressure point and come along techniques. The pain in using pressure points is intense, but it isn't 50,000 volts through the nervous system. It is also over as soon as you stop applying the pressure.

Biggest problem I saw with cops, deputies, reserves is a lack of experience mixing it up. They fear that punch. If they are taught the above non taser, non beating the detainee techniques they don't keep current on the methods and it is far easier to just tase the bastard. :(

The first go rounds with the reserve academy students it was easily my win. The lead Instructor told the students to treat the detainees hard because the detainees will not spare them. Still hesitation made 'em easy meat. By the time we got to domestics they gave it back but good. I tried repeatedly to strip the pistol and got halted but good without being beaten down... training gentlemen, training and the confidence/guts to see it through without shooting/tasing/beating with a baton.

Anyway tasers used frequently and that is a comparison to the rest of the force and not a nationwide number, but cops using their tasers a lot are generally one of three types, or a combination of several...

Lazy

Poorly trained

afraid to go toe to toe.

Tasers have their place, but not on simple traffic stops on PG women.

Perhaps the woman would have sued no matter what, it is however a much harder to sell to a jury if she complains about being pinched between her thumb and forefinger on one hand and had her other arm lifted up REAL HIGH behind her back, vs hospital pics of burn spots on her neck :shock:
 
Taser Pain May Be Considered by Supreme Court as Excessive Force - Yahoo! News



She sued the cops, and right now has won the suit, however the cops where granted immunity due to the law being considered too vague. Thursday SCOTUS meets to decide whether to hear the case.

So, now the question: the woman was no threat and was simply refusing to comply. In that type situation, is the inflicting of intense pain a violation of the constitution? A further question that does not translate well to a poll so just type out an answer...where does the line get drawn? When are police justified in using a taser, and when is it excessive?

Anyone who refuses to cooperate deserves the crap tasered out of them, or in this case pee.
 
Anyone who refuses to cooperate deserves the crap tasered out of them, or in this case pee.

This type of thinking is the reason for an increase in an authoritarian state. Cooperation and obedience or harm will befall you.
 
This type of thinking is the reason for an increase in an authoritarian state. Cooperation and obedience or harm will befall you.

The reason for an increase in the authoritarian state is that individuals can't/won't control their impulses, thus the need for force. Freedom and liberty are wonderful things, if a population can handle the responsibility to act civil and display manners and common courtesy. With all the crap I see happening around our country these days, it will become more authoritarian by necessity, unfortunately.
 
Sometimes yes sometimes no.
 
The reason for an increase in the authoritarian state is that individuals can't/won't control their impulses, thus the need for force. Freedom and liberty are wonderful things, if a population can handle the responsibility to act civil and display manners and common courtesy. With all the crap I see happening around our country these days, it will become more authoritarian by necessity, unfortunately.
But that has no effect on Arete's valid criticism of Mathematician's argument. Mathematician argued that people who don't comply "deserve to have the crap tased out of them." That statement includes people who can/will control their impulses which means that force isn't needed. That's the point and when you use force against people who aren't a threat just because they "deserve it," it's baseless, authoritarian type nonsense.
 
It is to protect your rights, as you can be arrested for failure to appear in court or for not paying the ticket. The procedure assures that officers actually issued you the ticket which usually has a pay by date and a scheduled court appearance date on it. How many parking tickets were said to have 'blown away' after being secured under the wiper blades?

I don't see any need to sign the ticket. The cop has the ticket reciept and if the person doesn't take the ticket the cop can mail it. Done. No need to get physical about a ticket. Unless a person is a danger there is no reason to lay hands on them.
 
I don't think he mentioned death.

Awesome, we're drawing the line at short circuiting the nervous system. Obey or be beaten into submission. So much better.
 
'Trooper-
You were pregnant at the time you were tasered? I'd imagine there is a difference between test tasering and Mathman's tasering the crap out of a detainee. I watched quite a few NTOA videos showing rather extensive discharges vs the little pops given to fellow cops as training.

I wish I was better at searches to see who complains about a tyrannical government, bogus forfeitures and the Right to Bear vs then spout off about submit to the cops or else....
 
Is that quantifiable or just an assertion? I know quite a few people who dislike the cops not because they are breaking the law but rather they view the expansion of police powers against the rights and liberties of the individual to be sickening and dangerous. Also cops are far from the perfect sort of folk and often we hear about corruption and abuse (which has to make one think about how much corruption and abuse we don't hear about). The cops are an armed division of the government and should be treated with the same amount of distrust that government should receive.

Also, "a lot" is two words.

Ikari...Cops dont care if you like them or distrust them, they really really dont....Theres two sides to every story Ikari..
 
Wow, this turned into a real crapfest.

Now what struck me is the apparent shallowness of training those claiming to be some sort of LE type appear to have. If I understand their levels it is shot 'em, baton 'em, punch 'em, tase 'em, pull on an arm and the lowest level, ask them to comply. I am rather shocked that they don't know 'better' than that. I got to play citizen during a Reserve Academy. VERY INTERESTING. The experts so far have failed to mention come along techniques, pressure points and instead of beating people with the baton, using it as additional leverage in various holds. (Boy howdy- it does work!)

I figure the cops in the OP must have had crappy apprehension and detention training. I can't see certified trainers saying it is safe to taze pregnant women in the neck. I can't see the trainers not teaching pressure point and come along techniques. The pain in using pressure points is intense, but it isn't 50,000 volts through the nervous system. It is also over as soon as you stop applying the pressure.

Biggest problem I saw with cops, deputies, reserves is a lack of experience mixing it up. They fear that punch. If they are taught the above non taser, non beating the detainee techniques they don't keep current on the methods and it is far easier to just tase the bastard. :(

The first go rounds with the reserve academy students it was easily my win. The lead Instructor told the students to treat the detainees hard because the detainees will not spare them. Still hesitation made 'em easy meat. By the time we got to domestics they gave it back but good. I tried repeatedly to strip the pistol and got halted but good without being beaten down... training gentlemen, training and the confidence/guts to see it through without shooting/tasing/beating with a baton.

Anyway tasers used frequently and that is a comparison to the rest of the force and not a nationwide number, but cops using their tasers a lot are generally one of three types, or a combination of several...

Lazy

Poorly trained

afraid to go toe to toe.

Tasers have their place, but not on simple traffic stops on PG women.

Perhaps the woman would have sued no matter what, it is however a much harder to sell to a jury if she complains about being pinched between her thumb and forefinger on one hand and had her other arm lifted up REAL HIGH behind her back, vs hospital pics of burn spots on her neck :shock:

lol....ok ....
 
Is that quantifiable or just an assertion? I know quite a few people who dislike the cops not because they are breaking the law but rather they view the expansion of police powers against the rights and liberties of the individual to be sickening and dangerous. Also cops are far from the perfect sort of folk and often we hear about corruption and abuse (which has to make one think about how much corruption and abuse we don't hear about). The cops are an armed division of the government and should be treated with the same amount of distrust that government should receive.

Also, "a lot" is two words.


....and when you are in trouble who you gonna call...ghostbusters? No you will call a COP...
 
....and when you are in trouble who you gonna call...ghostbusters? No you will call a COP...

THEY ALL LOVE US WHEN THEY NEED US and they have a load in thier shorts and scared to death...lol....greatest thing in the world is being an OLD experienced cop...ive heard all of this a gadzillion times and I just laugh...
 
Ikari...Cops dont care if you like them or distrust them, they really really dont....Theres two sides to every story Ikari..

Cops don't have to care if I distrust them. They just need to know that if they act too improperly that I'm armed.
 
....and when you are in trouble who you gonna call...ghostbusters? No you will call a COP...

When you really need a cop, they're 10 minutes away. Don't rely on them to save your life, rely on yourself.
 
When you really need a cop, they're 10 minutes away. Don't rely on them to save your life, rely on yourself.

lol...ok ...a question though where did you get the 10 minute stat from...mayberry police dept...lol
 
Cops don't have to care if I distrust them. They just need to know that if they act too improperly that I'm armed.

ouuuuuuuuu ...I bet every cop in your town...drives the other way when they see you...lol.
 
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