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Taser Use

Is using a taser to arrest a noncoperative but nonviolent person "excessive force"


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This is one of those situations where I'm not sure there was a good answer. They probably shouldn't have used the taser on a pregnant woman who wasn't resisting them violently. Especially since they still ended up having to physically drag her out of the car. Then again, we have no idea what the woman would have done had she not been tased before being dragged out. Maybe she would have struggled harder, and getting into a physical struggle with a pregnant woman isn't a good idea either. I don't think this particular case is as bad as some I've heard. But in some cases I do think the police are resorting to using tasers too readily, simply out of laziness. And my other problem with taser use is that though they are marketed as non-lethal weapons, there are cases in which they can be lethal, and although those cases are very rare, there is generally no way of telling before using the taser whether it will kill the person it's being used on.
 
For those of you suggesting it's always Excessive Force....

If we take the Tasers away from the LEO's you do realize that the only weapon they have capable of ranged submission of a subject becomes a firearm, right?
 
Tasers should only be used in situations police would otherwise use firearms or batons/punching/tackling in, not because someone's being a pain in the arse.
 
For those of you suggesting it's always Excessive Force....

If we take the Tasers away from the LEO's you do realize that the only weapon they have capable of ranged submission of a subject becomes a firearm, right?

:lol: So before the introduction of tasers, the police would have shot the woman in the OP?
 
:lol: So before the introduction of tasers, the police would have shot the woman in the OP?

Would have..... Probably not.
SHOULD have..... Definitely.

I was raised that you did not ignore or disobey a Law Enforcement Officer... PERIOD. If you had a problem with them, you contacted the department AFTER the fact and filed a complaint; but you did what the officer told you to do at that moment.
 
Would have..... Probably not.
SHOULD have..... Definitely.

I was raised that you did not ignore or disobey a Law Enforcement Officer... PERIOD. If you had a problem with them, you contacted the department AFTER the fact and filed a complaint; but you did what the officer told you to do at that moment.

That is a ridiculous notion to me. In a free society, you have the right to question the charges against you, and not be in fear or complete obedience to the police.

We pay for the police departments and have rights. The police are not supposed to be those who can tell me that my right don't matter when being confronted by them.
 
When I was active, trust me...the baton hurts more and the pain can last for days....Police cannot have citizens routinely defying them...I know that sounds like we think were gods...but that has nothing to do with...we are sworn to protect and serve citizens and protect the peace...you cannot accomplish that with people routinely refusing to obey you

Yes, don't question them just do as they say when they say it! They say jump, you say "how high!".

How lovely and sad that you got it exactly backwards. And people wonder why we need the 2nd amendment.
 
No, it has nothing to do with the few bully cops who beat people they've arrested, it has nothing to do with stories like this, it has nothing to do with actually crappy cops with crappy attitudes or with cops who don't do their jobs in minority neighborhoods or any of that. It's just about people who fight authority.

What a crock of ****.

The only argument you can make, which I agree with by the way, is that it's irrational to generalize about cops being all bad based on the few bad ones that ruin their name. However, you cannot argue that people have a problem with cops just because they "fight all authority" and not because they have legitimate reasons to dislike them based on their own experiences.

Well, you can say that, but I've been around enough retard anti-cop morons who have NOTHING good to say about any cop, ever. They're (the cops) always in the wrong, no matter what they do. This attitude doesn't come from a rational weighing of the pros and cons of police actions; it's a generalization based in a specific worldview, that authority is bad, no one has a right to tell me what to do, blah blah blah.

I'm not trying to discount real cases of police brutality, I've made my outrage known at what I consider excessive use of force. There are lot of rotten cops out there who need to be taken off the force.

But let's make a connection here; what drives some cops to be sadistic, power hungry abusers? What drive some people to hate all cops for no reason? It's based in personality, you're worldview. Some worldviews are insane.
 
Would have..... Probably not.
SHOULD have..... Definitely.

I was raised that you did not ignore or disobey a Law Enforcement Officer... PERIOD. If you had a problem with them, you contacted the department AFTER the fact and filed a complaint; but you did what the officer told you to do at that moment.

Folks, do not let people saying stupid, over the top **** like this get the thread sidetracked. Just ignore it.
 
This is one of those situations where I'm not sure there was a good answer. They probably shouldn't have used the taser on a pregnant woman who wasn't resisting them violently. Especially since they still ended up having to physically drag her out of the car. Then again, we have no idea what the woman would have done had she not been tased before being dragged out. Maybe she would have struggled harder, and getting into a physical struggle with a pregnant woman isn't a good idea either. I don't think this particular case is as bad as some I've heard. But in some cases I do think the police are resorting to using tasers too readily, simply out of laziness. And my other problem with taser use is that though they are marketed as non-lethal weapons, there are cases in which they can be lethal, and although those cases are very rare, there is generally no way of telling before using the taser whether it will kill the person it's being used on.

Very fair minded post based on common sense...I agree no good could come out of this situation...the woman was being ridiculously difficult.
Non lethal does not mean it cannot hurt or kill...Non lethal means for the general population tasers are safe...there are always unknowns...weak hearts etc...using other means of restraint can be even more lethal...<batons physical restraint>
The bottom line here there is no perfect solution when police have to restrain a person to take them into custody...
 
Well, you can say that, but I've been around enough retard anti-cop morons who have NOTHING good to say about any cop, ever. They're (the cops) always in the wrong, no matter what they do. This attitude doesn't come from a rational weighing of the pros and cons of police actions; it's a generalization based in a specific worldview, that authority is bad, no one has a right to tell me what to do, blah blah blah.

I'm not trying to discount real cases of police brutality, I've made my outrage known at what I consider excessive use of force. There are lot of rotten cops out there who need to be taken off the force.

But let's make a connection here; what drives some cops to be sadistic, power hungry abusers? What drive some people to hate all cops for no reason? It's based in personality, you're worldview. Some worldviews are insane.
Great, but that doesn't justify your original comment nor does it really have much to do with it or my response. You said, "cops are people of many people's hatred because there are personalities out there who instinctively fight all authority, legit or not." That's an absolute statement which happens to be a crock of ****. If you want to say, "some people hate cops because they just don't like authority," then that is an accurate statement. However, your original comment is false and nothing you've said in this one justifies it.
 
Great, but that doesn't justify your original comment nor does it really have much to do with it or my response. You said, "cops are people of many people's hatred because there are personalities out there who instinctively fight all authority, legit or not." That's an absolute statement which happens to be a crock of ****. If you want to say, "some people hate cops because they just don't like authority," then that is an accurate statement. However, your original comment is false and nothing you've said in this one justifies it.

Alot of people dont like cops because they have alot of negative interaction with them...by breaking the law and being scumbags...:) They were always my favorite detractors and haters...:)
 
Alot of people dont like cops because they have alot of negative interaction with them...by breaking the law and being scumbags...:) They were always my favorite detractors and haters...:)
Sure, some people don't like cops because of that. And there are people who either were beaten or have friends who gotten were beaten by cops for no good reason or see stories like this or who live in neighborhoods where the cops don't do jack about violence or who know firsthand the consequences of dirty cops or who know cops spread hate about gay people by talking about disgusting sex clubs they broke up when they were on the force and so on.

:)
 
I don't like the fact that a pregnant woman got tazed, but she made some horrible choices. The police stopped her, at that point it is just easier to comply with commands and the situation ends peacefully and more quickly. As well, I think every state has a law compelling one to sign an issued ticket, if you think you are in the right challenge in court, if the officer is being polite and professional comply. The woman endangered her own child by being non compliant and she had to realize the situation could escalate. I don't know what the voltage effect of the secondaries of hitting the ground would have been but I do assume it's less than a baton or the force created by having to use a restraining hold and it's certainly less than a shooting.
 
False choices.

If these:
These are basically your options: Yank her out and throw her to the ground; mace her; hit her with the baton; tase her.

... are "False choices", please enlighten me as to which choices were left out.

I'm willing to accept that there might have been a reasonable and legitimate choice I haven't listed; however, the choices that were listed were not "false". They are choices available to the LEO's on the scene, legitimate police actions to handle an uncooperative subject. Some may not like it, but that's the way it is.
 
If these:

... are "False choices", please enlighten me as to which choices were left out.

I'm willing to accept that there might have been a reasonable and legitimate choice I haven't listed; however, the choices that were listed were not "false". They are choices available to the LEO's on the scene, legitimate police actions to handle an uncooperative subject. Some may not like it, but that's the way it is.
The phrase "false choice" does not mean that the choices are illegitimate or "false" in and of themselves. It means that the choices presented leave out plausible alternatives. The choice you left out was removing her from the car physically without "throwing her to the ground" which they actually ended up doing and should have done initially instead of tasing her.
 
If the Supreme Court argues that using a taser is excessive force, then tasers should no longer be used. Otherwise you'd be picking and choosing, discriminating, on who gets to be tased.
 
If the Supreme Court argues that using a taser is excessive force, then tasers should no longer be used. Otherwise you'd be picking and choosing, discriminating, on who gets to be tased.

We also discriminate on who gets arrested: those accused of crimes, not every one. Congrats, you have made the most silly post in this whole thread.
 
These ant-taser arguments always baffle me.

How many of the people who are so against tasers have actually been tased?

I've been tased about 6 times by a police issue taser. Once for the certification and the others were doing the quick cartridge change drills.

Everyone in my class agreed they'd choose taser over OC spray or the baton any day of the week.

Sure when you quote the volts it sounds bad and the sound is intimidating but when it's over it's over.

What's the alternative? "She's being resistant I guess we better just let her go?"
 
We also discriminate on who gets arrested: those accused of crimes, not every one. Congrats, you have made the most silly post in this whole thread.

Do you think it's fair that some should be subjected to excessive force and some shouldn't?

Because as the story in the OP seems to indicate, using a taser is excessive force.
 
Do you think it's fair that some should be subjected to excessive force and some shouldn't?

Because as the story in the OP seems to indicate, using a taser is excessive force.


Wake...of course some must be made to comply via force....but never should excessive force be used EVER...
 
Do you think it's fair that some should be subjected to excessive force and some shouldn't?

Because as the story in the OP seems to indicate, using a taser is excessive force.

Then you have not read the story in the OP. What the courts have ruled so far is that in some circumstances, using a taser is excessive force. Let me repeat that for you: in some circumstances. Not always.
 
If the Supreme Court argues that using a taser is excessive force, then tasers should no longer be used. Otherwise you'd be picking and choosing, discriminating, on who gets to be tased.

Wake if the supreme court deems tasers as excessive force thats the end game..tasers become history. I dont understand exactly what your intent was with the second statement...but every decision to tase or not to tase is picking and choosing when its APPROPRIATE to us the taser...you wouldnt want police to say Ok...we cant discriminate who we tase...so lets just tase everyone...police have to use their judgement on scene whether tasing is necessary or not....see my point ?
 
This article, "Taser Pain May Be Considered by Supreme Court as Excessive Force," made it seem that the Courts were considering whether or not taser pain [all taser pain?] would be considered excessive force. If that's not the case, alright.
 
This article, "Taser Pain May Be Considered by Supreme Court as Excessive Force," made it seem that the Courts were considering whether or not taser pain [all taser pain?] would be considered excessive force. If that's not the case, alright.

Ok I understand where you were coming from...but what that meant was it MAY be heard by the supreme court....
 
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