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Taser Use

Is using a taser to arrest a noncoperative but nonviolent person "excessive force"


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You get arrested alot it sounds like...most assholes do :) but you made my point for me in this thread...you came along like a good boy...we like that...COs especially like that...lol

i've been arrested numerous times ( all misdemeanor stuff.. mostly for fighting and drinkin, or a combination thereof).. .24 arrests, 2 convictions( plead guilty)... 22 victory winks to the cops who arrest me on my way out of the courtroom. ( y'all don't tend to like those)

of course I come along like a "good boy" ( nice, a demeaning attitude from a cop.. how original :roll: ).. you guy have the naked force advantage, and the badge to back you up..... I might be an alpha male, but i'm far from stupid.
CO's are barely even human.. they get no respect from me.


but yeah.. maybe you should take the hint from redress about personal attacks, although i'm betting yours is overlooked.
 
Obviously they had already tried to pull her out and she resisted.
That's not obvious because it says that nowhere in the article.

They were then faced with forcibly yanking her out and flinging her onto the ground to be cuffed.
No, they weren't. That's the false choice you've created.

She was 7 months pregnant. I ask again... this woman who created this situation, escalated this situation, is now under arrest so she MUST be taken into the station and booked... how do you safely get her out if she refuses to comply?
Already answered, although I wouldn't mind adding pepper spray as a solution.

They handled it the way they felt best, and we... as usual, lol... are second-guessing them without the benefit of knowing all the details.
I don't know if they handled the best they could. I don't think they did, though. And this a debate site, so debating or "second-guessing" is the name of the game, so...

Any way you slice it, the entire situation was completely her fault, and her fault alone.
Irrelevant. The thread and my comments are about proper use of force, not whose fault it is.

These are basically your options: Yank her out and throw her to the ground; mace her; hit her with the baton; tase her.
False choices.
 
Point to where Ive said anything different than that...heres what I said..and Ill say it again...once your placed under arrest...your going one way or another...and I stand by that.

no argument there.. once under arrest, you might as well give it up... hell, once i'm under arrest, I don't even talk to cops, let alone resist arrest.
 
They werent simply sitting down...they were placed under arrest and refusing to exit the vehicle...so if the police didnt taser her...and just bully grabbed her and fought her out of the car and she got badly hurt...that would have been better ?...now keep this one thought in mind...shes under arrest...no matter what she has got to go in the end...so the question is how do you get there if shes refusing

You know where she lives. She is not Jeffrey Dahmer. She did not rob a bank. She did not get violent. She refused to comply in getting out of her vehicle. She was pregnant. She said she had to pee. If she got out and peed? If she got out and cramped? Would they escort her to the nearest bathroom so she could relieve her already full bladder with a baby sitting on top of it? No.
There is a line to arresting someone and tazering them for not signing a piece of fracking paper. It could have been handled differently. They were out of line. I hope she sues. And I hope she wins.
With that said.....she was wrong to begin with but that doesnt excuse being tazered. Period.
And I love every sheriff in this town. I always show respect, but I expect respect in return. A cop has no rights in enforcing the law where they torture me. Period. Or anyone.
 
Use of a taser should not be needed for passive resistance (simply going limp). If she had a 'death grip' on the steering wheel that is not passive resistance, as she was using force to remain in the car; that would constitute resisting arrest, IMHO, allowing the use of force (incuding the taser) to get her out of her vehicle and into the police car. Simply going limp and making the officer(s) carry or drag you would not warrant the use of the taser.
 
no argument there.. once under arrest, you might as well give it up... hell, once i'm under arrest, I don't even talk to cops, let alone resist arrest.
Yeah, the resisting arrest thing has never made sense to me; it's too risky. I'd rather just go wherever, get a lawyer and then take it from there.
 
There ya go...good sound common sense...the taser imho was by far the best way to go and the proof of that is the end result...shes fine

But why do they need to remove her at all? Why does she need to sign the ticket either? Send it to her in the mail with a non-compliance fine or something but tasing a person like this is cowardly bull**** and the ****stick cops should be beaten.
 
I thought about that. Although, I think tasing automatically puts her in an amount of danger that attempting to forcibly remove her without excessive violence does not. I tend to think that 2-3 male cops could remove her from her car without hurting her too badly.

Pregnant women, steering wheel, unstable situation...yeah, physically removing her has trouble written all over it.
 
But why do they need to remove her at all? Why does she need to sign the ticket either? Send it to her in the mail with a non-compliance fine or something but tasing a person like this is cowardly bull**** and the ****stick cops should be beaten.


Not according to the law I cites in this thread. Moreover, the officers only need to submit affidavits that they did indeed issue a ticket and the burden in then upon the driver to dispute those assertions in court or receive a default judgement and possible bench warrant for failure to appear.
 
From what I researched the law in Washington State regarding signing a ticket, the law was changed in 2006 where the person being issued a ticket was not required to sign the citation. She refused to get out of the car. That is not required in this for issuance of a ticket. If such is the current law then the use of the tasers was excessive and police procedure should come into question.

The body of the law is as follows:


http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2005-06/Pdf/Amendments/Senate/1650-S AMS KLIN S5393.2.pdf

This case happened in 2004.
 
Pregnant women, steering wheel, unstable situation...yeah, physically removing her has trouble written all over it.
So does tasering her. :shrug: Moreover, as I said in another post, I wouldn't mind adding pepper spray to the mix.
 
Not according to the law I cites in this thread. Moreover, the officers only need to submit affidavits that they did indeed issue a ticket and the burden in then upon the driver to dispute those assertions in court or receive a default judgement and possible bench warrant for failure to appear.

Good call. Even if this isn't a law though it is just common sense. Follow her home. There are all sorts of different alternatives. Cops aren't God to be obeyed just because they open their mouths.
 
You know where she lives. She is not Jeffrey Dahmer. She did not rob a bank. She did not get violent. She refused to comply in getting out of her vehicle. She was pregnant. She said she had to pee. If she got out and peed? If she got out and cramped? Would they escort her to the nearest bathroom so she could relieve her already full bladder with a baby sitting on top of it? No.
There is a line to arresting someone and tazering them for not signing a piece of fracking paper. It could have been handled differently. They were out of line. I hope she sues. And I hope she wins.
With that said.....she was wrong to begin with but that doesnt excuse being tazered. Period.
And I love every sheriff in this town. I always show respect, but I expect respect in return. A cop has no rights in enforcing the law where they torture me. Period. Or anyone.

The officers made a simple legal request that she simply sign the citation, explaining that it was not an admission of guilt, and she would have been on her merry way. She decided to take it to the next level, by resisting arrest, that she chose over simply signing the ticket, a very dumb thing to do. I have no sympathy for her not expediting her own arrest, she was given two choices and decided to pick a third alternative, resisting arrest.
 
The officers made a simple legal request that she simply sign the citation, explaining that it was not an admission of guilt, and she would have been on her merry way. She decided to take it to the next level, by resisting arrest, that she chose over simply signing the ticket, a very dumb thing to do. I have no sympathy for her not expediting her own arrest, she was given two choices and decided to pick a third alternative, resisting arrest.

Can you explain how not signing a ticket = being arrested in the first place? What kind of dumb **** law is that?
 
There are now cameras at stop signs. Run it, you get a ticket in the mail. Apply that to those who refuse to sign. All the cop has to do is write it, hand it to the person, if they tear it up or refuse to sign, shrug, walk away, mail a copy, done. They dont appear, then get an arrest warrant. No tazers need to be applied.
 
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Good call. Even if this isn't a law though it is just common sense. Follow her home. There are all sorts of different alternatives. Cops aren't God to be obeyed just because they open their mouths.


As redress pointed out this incident happened in 2004 before the law was changed...so they did have to require her to sign..
Now having said that I think its a ridiculous law that can only cause incidents like this one...its absurd...thats why they finally changed it....she refused to sign so what...the cop signs driver refused to sign and initials it...the citation is the cops observation of her breaking motor vehicle laws...so why doe she have to sign...the cop signs...stupid law they had
 
There are now cameras at stop signs. Run it, you get a ticket in the mail. Apply that to those who refuse to sign. All the cop has to do is write it, hand it to the person, if they tear it up or refuse to sign, shrug, walk away, mail a copy, done. They dont appear, then get an arrest warrant. No tazers need to be applied.

It is just such common sense that I am bewildered to see people actually support this crap.
 
As redress pointed out this incident happened in 2004 before the law was changed...so they did have to require her to sign..
Now having said that I think its a ridiculous law that can only cause incidents like this one...its absurd...thats why they finally changed it....she refused to sign so what...the cop signs driver refused to sign and initials it...the citation is the cops observation of her breaking motor vehicle laws...so why doe she have to sign...the cop signs...stupid law they had

The case we are talking about was 2004? Oh... they changed the law and it is better now then? Good.

Why are we talking about this case then? :lol:
 
As redress pointed out this incident happened in 2004 before the law was changed...so they did have to require her to sign..
Now having said that I think its a ridiculous law that can only cause incidents like this one...its absurd...thats why they finally changed it....she refused to sign so what...the cop signs driver refused to sign and initials it...the citation is the cops observation of her breaking motor vehicle laws...so why doe she have to sign...the cop signs...stupid law they had

Thanks the date is what I was looking for. I get immersed in the research and the looking for the specific case. So the 2006 law is not valid.
 
Can you explain how not signing a ticket = being arrested in the first place? What kind of dumb **** law is that?

Its a very dumb law...thats why they changed it...that law doesnt do anything but cause altercations...its absurd...and I said that way up in the first couple of pages of this thread...
 
The case we are talking about was 2004? Oh... they changed the law and it is better now then? Good.

Why are we talking about this case then? :lol:


Give cop haters more reason to hate...lol...nah the thread was started to discuss the use of tasers and when they were appropriate to apply and when not and where is the line drawn...the signing the ticket thing came up when I mentioned we meaning my dept never required that..we just wrote the ticket and handed it to them and everyone went their way.
 
Can you explain how not signing a ticket = being arrested in the first place? What kind of dumb **** law is that?

It is to protect your rights, as you can be arrested for failure to appear in court or for not paying the ticket. The procedure assures that officers actually issued you the ticket which usually has a pay by date and a scheduled court appearance date on it. How many parking tickets were said to have 'blown away' after being secured under the wiper blades?
 
It is to protect your rights, as you can be arrested for failure to appear in court or for not paying the ticket. The procedure assures that officers actually issued you the ticket which usually has a pay by date and a scheduled court appearance date on it. How many parking tickets were said to have 'blown away' after being secured under the wiper blades?

No one has to sign tickets that are under a wiper blade anyway...thats why the law makes no sense...summons books have copies..the officer signs that he gave you a copy of the ticket...no you can rip it up in front of me...and Id shrug and say...hope you remember the fine and the court date...and I walk away...I have my copy that I turn in :)
 
The case we are talking about was 2004? Oh... they changed the law and it is better now then? Good.

Why are we talking about this case then? :lol:

All the way back at post 1, there is an explanation.
 
No one has to sign tickets that are under a wiper blade anyway...thats why the law makes no sense...summons books have copies..the officer signs that he gave you a copy of the ticket...no you can rip it up in front of me...and Id shrug and say...hope you remember the fine and the court date...and I walk away...I have my copy that I turn in :)

I know that parking tickets don't have to be signed, but moving violations at least used to be. What is to prevent the officer from writing several tickets in a single stop and not handing the driver all of them? If I am given a cheap ticket (out of date tags/inspection) I simply pay it, but for serious offenses (102 in a 55, or not having proof of insurance) it is worth a try in court. If you don't pay the ticket or appear in court then the fine doubles and you get pencil whipped but good by the system, perhaps even getting your license suspended or revoked and having an FTA bench warrant issued.
 
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