View Poll Results: Is using a taser to arrest a noncoperative but nonviolent person "excessive force"

Voters
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  • Yes, always

    15 26.79%
  • Depends, sometimes yes, sometimes no

    26 46.43%
  • No, tasers are acceptable if a person is not cooperating

    13 23.21%
  • Don't know

    2 3.57%
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Thread: Taser Use

  1. #251
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Pepper spray has blinded people...batons break bones...and when you get 2 or 3 cops swinging batons at someone flailing and kicking its VERY easy and happened often that the baton hits them in a very vulnerable spot that the cop wasnt aiming at and the person moved right into it...like a cheekbone or an eyesocket...Ive said this in 4 or 5 posts here and everyone either blows past it or thinks im just full of it....
    Im telling you that batons and pepper spray caused more injuries natural and physical than tasers...tasers are quicker and theres less time for crowd formation...and the subdue much faster which is always a good thing for everyone...but some people have such a mentality towards police nothing is good enough for them...what can i say to that...shrug have fun with the hate..
    Agreed man.
    I can speak on this because I have trained with every tool we are speaking of.
    Batons: I have hit people and been hit with batons during Non-Lethal Weapons course. Batons are not an effective weapon overall. Sure, they can break a bone but that's not what you want when using it. You want to take the person down. You want minimal damage when using weapons such as these. If I'm using a baton, I'm obviously using it because I don't want to kill the person I'm using it against. Well, if I don't want to kill them, why not make the pain as humane as possible? Ending up with a broken bone is not my idea of humane.
    Pepper Spray: I have been sprayed with military grade oleoresin capsicum or OC spray. Commonly called pepper spray although the military grade is much stouter than what you can get on the civilian market. Anyway, pepper spray is not going to kill anyone, unless in a rare case of allergies or something. It can blind you if used improperly however. No amount of training with this stuff can factor out the human factor. In other words, you never know when the guy you are trying to spray will get a wild hare and jump at you while you are deploying your OC spray. If he's too close, it may hit him in an exposed eyeball and possibly blind him. Also, OC spray sticks with a person for a LONG time. You can be in almost unimaginable pain for hours after it being used. I don't want to deal with someone in that kind of pain if I'm a cop. Why? You never know what they're going to do. Finally, some people are immune to it. A smal portion of the population, but some are.
    Taser: I have been tased. It sucks. It made me piss myself. You know what else it did? Incapacitated me. I was at the mercy of whomever was in the room for that brief time. That's what you want if you are the cop. The person endures pain for the shortest amount of time why also being made completely docile so you can cuff them. Studies have shown that 99.7% of individuals that have tasers used on them do not die. In a perfect world, that number would be 100%. But, this isn't a perfect world. I would offer that the small percentage of people that die from tasers is far outweighed by how many have died from physical altercations with cops after they refuse to comply.
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  2. #252
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Rogue I know that...I posted that 20 pages back...let me repeat what ive said here...The incident would never have taken place if they cops werent sworn to uphold an bad law....after that it was all on her..she categorically refused every thing she was asked to do...so what was left...lets be clear, the police at that point could not and would not say...ok you dont want to do anything we ask..so were screwed now and have to just let you go...doesnt work like that, never will. She had to go and they made her...as unfortunate as that was.
    I agree. As far as I'm concerned, as soon as the law was changed, the case should have been dropped. There was nothing else she deserved beyond getting that stupid law changed. She brought everything else upon herself.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  3. #253
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    Re: Taser Use

    I would rather be tazed every day than have to suffer OC spray ever again. I was in pain for HOURS after our
    OC training. Tazer training sucked for the 5 seconds you rode the lightnin but as soon as it was over the pain stopped
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  4. #254
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    I asked about your experience as it related to your original position.


    You are entitled to express your views. I was simply asking about your experience. You have erected some construct which is outside the parameters of our original discussion which I chose not to get involved with.
    It's not outside the parameters. You just made a stupid question in order to over constrain a response. As I said, I do not need personal experience to know that one is better off relying on themselves than the cops for their own protection. There is plenty of data which says exactly that.
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  5. #255
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    Re: Taser Use

    Oscar-
    were you tased in the neck?

  6. #256
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Oscar-
    were you tased in the neck?
    Being tasered sucks...no question or doubt about it...it may very well be the worst 5 seconds of your life...but here some fact for you...no police recruit has died from being tasered and they all get tasered in the academy....healthy people do not die from being tasered....people that have underlying issues that can be brought out by being tasered...but those same issues would arise if they were physically being restrained or a baton was in use...tasering someone repeatedly should never be done and that can cause issues...

  7. #257
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Oscar-
    were you tased in the neck?
    Have you ever been tazed at all?

    I have been tazed several times for training purposes. Once had an electrode attached to my boot, linked arms with another guy and the other electrode attached to his boot.

    It sucked

    Once shot between the shoulder blades.

    It sucked

    Once shot in the ass

    It sucked

    Once shot in the chest

    It sucked

    And once in a bar the popo shot a guy next to me and one of the lead wires hit the side of my face

    It sucked.

    Point being, it really doesn't matter where you get tazed. It sucks. But as soon as they release the trigger it is over.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  8. #258
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's not outside the parameters. You just made a stupid question in order to over constrain a response. As I said, I do not need personal experience to know that one is better off relying on themselves than the cops for their own protection. There is plenty of data which says exactly that.
    I never said that you needed personal experience.

    I asked you if you had personal experience.....


    I understand that you have some special requirements, therefore, for your convenience I will post the question as asked once again. As you can see it is a very close ended question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Can you give you experiences where you personally could not rely upon the police to save your life.

    Again trying to change the facts to fit whatever you conjure up in your mind....you are very tiresome at this point. Have you practiced Danny Boy we are all waiting for you...

  9. #259
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Again trying to change the facts to fit whatever you conjure up in your mind....you are very tiresome at this point. Have you practiced Danny Boy we are all waiting for you...
    It's not trying to change anything. As I've said, I have not needed the police for anything as of yet; they've only proven a hindrance. However, the statement I made is true and is not dependent upon personal experience. You're trying to reverse engineer an answer through over-constraint of a question. Information isn't limited to personal experience and can be used to draw proper conclusion.

    And I haven't practiced Danny Boy. Sadly the days of the ol' garage band are over and now I have better things to do than to sit around with a group of dudes playing band.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #260
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    Re: Taser Use

    Like say in the neck? Or pregnant? Again you seem intent on only using the baton to beat people. Is your training that limited?

    It is one thing to subject someone, a police or military recruit who has had a psychical exam, to tasering, but once again, back on topic, not PG ladies in the neck.

    I am not a big believer in the sprays. Sucks to use them in a confined area, as bad for the cops as the bad guy. You really can't handle a detainee once he is doused, and your patrol car will reek.

    But it seems for some training isn't as important as a new 'tool'.

    The difference between a 'problem' (that should read between sending a citizen to the hospital and then losing a healthy chuck of the city's (taxpayer) money in a lawsuit) is the detainee will have to be cuffed, they do not have to be tased IF, and IF is the biggest word in the English language, the Cops are trained in pressure points and come alongs. Now I NEVER said tasers are not useful, but again they are most likely used way too often, for the three reasons I have mentioned earlier. I say again, big difference between a small bruise on her hand and complaining her other arm hurts and nice hospital pics of her taser burns.

    Taser a drunk combative rather large individual out of the vehicle... that is not the same thing as a PG woman having a meltdown. (You know this)

    But we have covered all this before and you should know by now I do know a bit about what force feels like, the pros and cons on sprays, tasers, batons, pressure points, come a longs....

    So when I ask the guys who have been tased and seem to think their very limited experience with 5 seconds of discharge makes them capable of speaking on typical taser use if their 'vast' experience included being tasered in the neck...

    I think it is a very valid question and one they should answer, not have others dissembling.
    Last edited by notquiteright; 05-25-12 at 11:40 AM.

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