View Poll Results: Is using a taser to arrest a noncoperative but nonviolent person "excessive force"

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  • Yes, always

    15 26.79%
  • Depends, sometimes yes, sometimes no

    26 46.43%
  • No, tasers are acceptable if a person is not cooperating

    13 23.21%
  • Don't know

    2 3.57%
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Thread: Taser Use

  1. #231
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    The response time in NYC for major crime calls is 4.8 minutes...average for all calls is 7.2 minutes....Major crime calls get priority... reports of robberies, rapes, reports of gunfire, burglary and assault with a weapon....and thats in NYC traffic...yes cops siren and go around...but if anyone has ever been in NYC...much of it is one way streets..one way then the other...if the top of that street is blocked you go nowhere no matter who you are..until you exit the vehicle and have a line of vehicles move first...thats superhuman fast response....

    No one even considers that the police can save everyone or be there in time to help everyone...that cant happen anywhere....responses can be anywhere from a few seconds up to the average depending where the car is in their zone...
    Everyone knows that police make mistakes....everyone acknowledges there are bad cops...but few will acknowledge the lionshare are good.
    Police fully realize there are those that are going to make them wrong no matter what...police know there are those that hate to be given orders or told what to do...they never listened to their mother...we know all that...and we hear it all the time over and over and over and that can make for a contrite response...it never changes its always the same
    NYC is where I pulled duty. I come from a family of LEO's.

  2. #232
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Why not knock'em out chemically? It's more humane, safer than beating them into submission and allows complete compliance for safer restraining for officer and suspect. The only thing better would be Jedi mind tricks.
    I dont think the law would ever allow it....Most prisons dont allow their medical drs to administer shots to convicts being subdued to calm them down anymore...they used to do that routinely because of liability, could you imagine a cop knocking out the wrong citizen...sheesh...and it will happen

  3. #233
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    NYC is where I pulled duty. I come from a family of LEO's.
    Then you KNOW ...

  4. #234
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I dont think the law would ever allow it....Most prisons dont allow their medical drs to administer shots to convicts being subdued to calm them down anymore...they used to do that routinely because of liability, could you imagine a cop knocking out the wrong citizen...sheesh...and it will happen
    Those are legitimate points and concerns but I still think it's a better solution than beating, tasing or shooting. Simply use the current tragedies occurring on the streets, in the courts to change the laws.

    A majority of resisters are either whacko or hyped and could use a brief timeout. The chemical could even be something to just paralyze them like curare. It would be in adjunct to current tools not a replacement and would make for quick "tag'em and bag'em". The main problem would be using a potent chemical in combo with already inebriated suspects, so it would have to be a really safe compound.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  5. #235
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I'm of course advocating a short acting chemical with minimal side effects. There would be a trial and error period till big pharma perfected a drug. I can't believe with all the surgeries performed every day that there would be that many injuries/deaths comparable to beating or electrocuting people into submission. We don't physically knock people unconscious for an operation because it's safer. If I tased you 4-5 times then tranq'd you, which one do you think you'd prefer? Using a device that delivers the most pain we can invent is not a sign of an enlightened culture.

    Officers are often put in no win confrontations because that's their job.
    You raise a fair point. What I am basically engaged in is the devil's advocate position, realistically though even in a surgery situation the sedatives can have adverse effects leading to complications, bad reactions, or death. Body chemistry is tricky even with a detailed medical history, which I believe makes a general tranquilizer that is 100% non-lethal impossible. Now, without complications I agree I'd rather go to sleep than get tased but none of us have guarantees in either situation. I dunno, to me there was no "good" option when the woman decided to resist the officer, but given that his choices were allow non-compliance, use physical force, shoot, or tase I am of the belief he chose correctly in this situation which ultimately ends up being a judgement call.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 05-24-12 at 05:27 PM.
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  6. #236
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    If an officer is actually out of line, the best thing to do is to go along with him on the scene, then call a good lawyer and sue someone's ass off.

    The latter may prove productive; disobedience/resistance at the scene rarely accomplishes anything and will usually take you somewhere you really don't want to go.

    I had a problem with a Trooper one time. I let him have his way at the scene of the stop, then afterward I contacted my State AG. The matter was handled in short order and the young Trooper was told in no uncertain terms that he was WRONG and NOT to do that again.
    Agreed. Unless the officer is literally endangering your life, I think it's best to cooperate even when they're out of line because the minute you start resisting, especially physically, is the minute you allow the officer to claim that his actions were justified.

  7. #237
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    Re: Taser Use

    Is refusing to sign a ticket worth the risk of getting tazed, beaten or arrested for resisting? IMHO, this lady was being an ass and got what was coming to her. The cops showed restraint in giving her multiple opportunities to comply before tazing her.
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  8. #238
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    This does not substantiate where the police allowed you to die as your original position clearly states, "Don't rely on them to save your life..."
    Indeed, don't rely on them to save your life. To say that because I haven't been threatened, I can't make that statement is nonsense. There is clear data of people being killed, robbed, raped, etc., all sorts of incidents where the police did not show up in time. It's like saying I can't claim one shouldn't walk off a cliff because I've never done so. But if measurement exists which demonstrates the effects of gravity, then I may use such data to draw proper conclusion. Let's not be obtuse here and feign stupidity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Oh brother...
    As I said, I was joking. But you play the flute man, may as well lay claim to the clarinette while you're at it. You should have said something a little less feminine, like the trumpet or tenor sax or trombone.
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  9. #239
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Indeed, don't rely on them to save your life. To say that because I haven't been threatened, I can't make that statement is nonsense. There is clear data of people being killed, robbed, raped, etc., all sorts of incidents where the police did not show up in time. It's like saying I can't claim one shouldn't walk off a cliff because I've never done so. But if measurement exists which demonstrates the effects of gravity, then I may use such data to draw proper conclusion. Let's not be obtuse here and feign stupidity.
    .
    agree

    I fail to see how saying "don't rely on the cops to save your life" can be equated to "the cops will let you die". plain simple truth is, the cops do the best they can, but there are times when the nearest cop is just too far away for them to reach you in time to keep a perp from killing you. the cops did not purposely let you be killed...there just wasn't anything they could do to stop it. other than hiring millions of cops and having one follow every single person around like a body guard there will be times when you have to depend on yourself
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  10. #240
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    agree

    I fail to see how saying "don't rely on the cops to save your life" can be equated to "the cops will let you die". plain simple truth is, the cops do the best they can, but there are times when the nearest cop is just too far away for them to reach you in time to keep a perp from killing you. the cops did not purposely let you be killed...there just wasn't anything they could do to stop it. other than hiring millions of cops and having one follow every single person around like a body guard there will be times when you have to depend on yourself
    Exactly! Precognition and teleportation do not exist. There's no way cops are going to always be Johnny on the Spot. It's not to say that cops will let you die, but rather that it is best to rely on yourself for your own protection since you will always be there when you need yourself the most.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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