View Poll Results: Is using a taser to arrest a noncoperative but nonviolent person "excessive force"

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  • Yes, always

    15 26.79%
  • Depends, sometimes yes, sometimes no

    26 46.43%
  • No, tasers are acceptable if a person is not cooperating

    13 23.21%
  • Don't know

    2 3.57%
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Thread: Taser Use

  1. #161
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by AreteCourage View Post
    This type of thinking is the reason for an increase in an authoritarian state. Cooperation and obedience or harm will befall you.
    The reason for an increase in the authoritarian state is that individuals can't/won't control their impulses, thus the need for force. Freedom and liberty are wonderful things, if a population can handle the responsibility to act civil and display manners and common courtesy. With all the crap I see happening around our country these days, it will become more authoritarian by necessity, unfortunately.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Taser Use

    Sometimes yes sometimes no.

  3. #163
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    The reason for an increase in the authoritarian state is that individuals can't/won't control their impulses, thus the need for force. Freedom and liberty are wonderful things, if a population can handle the responsibility to act civil and display manners and common courtesy. With all the crap I see happening around our country these days, it will become more authoritarian by necessity, unfortunately.
    But that has no effect on Arete's valid criticism of Mathematician's argument. Mathematician argued that people who don't comply "deserve to have the crap tased out of them." That statement includes people who can/will control their impulses which means that force isn't needed. That's the point and when you use force against people who aren't a threat just because they "deserve it," it's baseless, authoritarian type nonsense.

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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    It is to protect your rights, as you can be arrested for failure to appear in court or for not paying the ticket. The procedure assures that officers actually issued you the ticket which usually has a pay by date and a scheduled court appearance date on it. How many parking tickets were said to have 'blown away' after being secured under the wiper blades?
    I don't see any need to sign the ticket. The cop has the ticket reciept and if the person doesn't take the ticket the cop can mail it. Done. No need to get physical about a ticket. Unless a person is a danger there is no reason to lay hands on them.
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I don't think he mentioned death.
    Awesome, we're drawing the line at short circuiting the nervous system. Obey or be beaten into submission. So much better.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Taser Use

    'Trooper-
    You were pregnant at the time you were tasered? I'd imagine there is a difference between test tasering and Mathman's tasering the crap out of a detainee. I watched quite a few NTOA videos showing rather extensive discharges vs the little pops given to fellow cops as training.

    I wish I was better at searches to see who complains about a tyrannical government, bogus forfeitures and the Right to Bear vs then spout off about submit to the cops or else....

  7. #167
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Is that quantifiable or just an assertion? I know quite a few people who dislike the cops not because they are breaking the law but rather they view the expansion of police powers against the rights and liberties of the individual to be sickening and dangerous. Also cops are far from the perfect sort of folk and often we hear about corruption and abuse (which has to make one think about how much corruption and abuse we don't hear about). The cops are an armed division of the government and should be treated with the same amount of distrust that government should receive.

    Also, "a lot" is two words.
    Ikari...Cops dont care if you like them or distrust them, they really really dont....Theres two sides to every story Ikari..

  8. #168
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Wow, this turned into a real crapfest.

    Now what struck me is the apparent shallowness of training those claiming to be some sort of LE type appear to have. If I understand their levels it is shot 'em, baton 'em, punch 'em, tase 'em, pull on an arm and the lowest level, ask them to comply. I am rather shocked that they don't know 'better' than that. I got to play citizen during a Reserve Academy. VERY INTERESTING. The experts so far have failed to mention come along techniques, pressure points and instead of beating people with the baton, using it as additional leverage in various holds. (Boy howdy- it does work!)

    I figure the cops in the OP must have had crappy apprehension and detention training. I can't see certified trainers saying it is safe to taze pregnant women in the neck. I can't see the trainers not teaching pressure point and come along techniques. The pain in using pressure points is intense, but it isn't 50,000 volts through the nervous system. It is also over as soon as you stop applying the pressure.

    Biggest problem I saw with cops, deputies, reserves is a lack of experience mixing it up. They fear that punch. If they are taught the above non taser, non beating the detainee techniques they don't keep current on the methods and it is far easier to just tase the bastard.

    The first go rounds with the reserve academy students it was easily my win. The lead Instructor told the students to treat the detainees hard because the detainees will not spare them. Still hesitation made 'em easy meat. By the time we got to domestics they gave it back but good. I tried repeatedly to strip the pistol and got halted but good without being beaten down... training gentlemen, training and the confidence/guts to see it through without shooting/tasing/beating with a baton.

    Anyway tasers used frequently and that is a comparison to the rest of the force and not a nationwide number, but cops using their tasers a lot are generally one of three types, or a combination of several...

    Lazy

    Poorly trained

    afraid to go toe to toe.

    Tasers have their place, but not on simple traffic stops on PG women.

    Perhaps the woman would have sued no matter what, it is however a much harder to sell to a jury if she complains about being pinched between her thumb and forefinger on one hand and had her other arm lifted up REAL HIGH behind her back, vs hospital pics of burn spots on her neck
    lol....ok ....

  9. #169
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Is that quantifiable or just an assertion? I know quite a few people who dislike the cops not because they are breaking the law but rather they view the expansion of police powers against the rights and liberties of the individual to be sickening and dangerous. Also cops are far from the perfect sort of folk and often we hear about corruption and abuse (which has to make one think about how much corruption and abuse we don't hear about). The cops are an armed division of the government and should be treated with the same amount of distrust that government should receive.

    Also, "a lot" is two words.

    ....and when you are in trouble who you gonna call...ghostbusters? No you will call a COP...

  10. #170
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    Re: Taser Use

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    ....and when you are in trouble who you gonna call...ghostbusters? No you will call a COP...
    THEY ALL LOVE US WHEN THEY NEED US and they have a load in thier shorts and scared to death...lol....greatest thing in the world is being an OLD experienced cop...ive heard all of this a gadzillion times and I just laugh...

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