View Poll Results: Should anything be done for graduate/professional students?

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  • Lower interest rates and subsidize interest

    9 36.00%
  • Raise interest rates

    2 8.00%
  • Provide more government aid to needy students

    6 24.00%
  • Raise taxes to make all education essentially free

    5 20.00%
  • Raise tuition to generate revenue for the gov.

    0 0%
  • Decrease funding for undergrads and increase funding for grad students

    1 4.00%
  • Do nothing/other

    13 52.00%
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Thread: Should anything be done for graduate/professional students?

  1. #31
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    Re: Should anything be done for graduate/professional students?

    I think there's a lot of misconception about subsidizing "useless" grad programs, like History PhD. Most of the programs I've heard of, at least the top ranked ones, offer full tuition, plus thousands and health care, for teaching undergrads. They can do that also because the school's endowment is huge. So I've met many who continue their education because it's the best option in a lousy economy. Even law and med school can be largely offset at top programs, so it's kind of an inverse of you get what you pay for.

    Keep in mind too that sometimes the individual is entirely blameless, as when the recession hit, and people were in the middle of law school. What can they do then? They were *screwed* and employers won't come back to them if/when the market recovers. There is a huge amount of risk in starting down the path to $100k+ in loans though, with what we know now. Especially when that's not gonna be a top program, like I said. As with undergrad, I think some colleges will shut down once people catch on, if this trend continues. Debt = no spending power = economy tanks. It's bad for everyone

  2. #32
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    Re: Should anything be done for graduate/professional students?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Not in graduate school. This year they did away with subsidized loans and now all of them are ubsub. They still remain in undergrad though.

    My premise is not that I should not pay or that I am somehow owed free education. My premise is that I don't think it's right to fund undergrads and provide aid while graduate students heap massive amounts of debt and have aid completely rescinded.
    Graduate students were once, all undergrads.

    I don't see how it's unfair.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Should anything be done for graduate/professional students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Graduate students were once, all undergrads.

    I don't see how it's unfair.
    Because once you transition you lose pretty much everything and are given higher interest loans that are not subsidized. I think if we are going to fund higher education it isn't right to throw money at all undergrads indiscriminately while doing nothing for grad students who are accruing massive amounts of debt. But then again I have always been more liberal when it comes to education. I think investing in education is a net positive for the country and helps the needy better themselves (especially when the alternative is being on welfare/government aid forever). What I personally feel is unfair is how graduate students are essentially the net payers into the system while undergrads are offered money at no cost to them (through state/federal aid and subsidized loans). We give, they take. As far as federal loans go we pay more and receive less while they receive more and pay less and I think it should be equal for everyone. I also compound this with the personal opinion that most graduate degrees benefit the country while many undergrad degrees are not economically viable. I'm not saying that the free aid is wrong, but I don't think it's right to only offer this to undergrads and have grad students funding more and receiving less.

    Like I said, would it be fair for healthcare professionals to drastically increase the cost of healthcare in response to their increased personal burden of student loans? Tuition goes up drastically.
    Last edited by digsbe; 05-20-12 at 12:45 AM.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Should anything be done for graduate/professional students?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Because once you transition you lose pretty much everything and are given higher interest loans that are not subsidized. I think if we are going to fund higher education it isn't right to throw money at all undergrads indiscriminately while doing nothing for grad students who are accruing massive amounts of debt. But then again I have always been more liberal when it comes to education. I think investing in education is a net positive for the country and helps the needy better themselves (especially when the alternative is being on welfare/government aid forever). What I personally feel is unfair is how graduate students are essentially the net payers into the system while undergrads are offered money at no cost to them (through state/federal aid and subsidized loans). We give, they take. As far as federal loans go we pay more and receive less while they receive more and pay less and I think it should be equal for everyone. I also compound this with the personal opinion that most graduate degrees benefit the country while many undergrad degrees are not economically viable.

    Like I said, would it be fair for healthcare professionals to drastically increase the cost of healthcare in response to their increased personal burden of student loans? Tuition goes up drastically.
    There are a fair share of grad degrees that are just as stupid to obtain.

    The cost of tuition will not go down, with further subsidization.
    Unsubsidized Stafford loans, is a misnomer, they're still subsidized.

    Did you take grant money and aid, when you were an undergrad?
    Why are you complaining, now that you just got into grad school?

    Investing in education, is just like anything else.
    There is such a thing as too much.

    Taxes would have to go up to pay for further subsidization, so either way, someone pays.
    It's just much more efficient to have the borrower pay.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 05-20-12 at 12:48 AM.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Should anything be done for graduate/professional students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    There are a fair share of grad degrees that are just as stupid to obtain.

    The cost of tuition will not go down, with further subsidization.
    Unsubsidized Stafford loans, is a misnomer, they're still subsidized.

    Did you take grant money and aid, when you were an undergrad?
    Why are you complaining, now that you just got into grad school?

    Investing in education, is just like anything else.
    There is such a thing as too much.

    Taxes would have to go up to pay for further subsidization, so either way, someone pays.
    It's just much more efficient to have the borrower pay.
    I'm expressing my beliefs, I don't view it as "complaining." My main problem is that under current funding undergrads get all of it. If the premise is aiding students in education I don't think it's right to focus on others while grad students become the net payers with no aid and more interest/no subsidized loans. I have accepted the terms as they exist today, but I don't think it's right that all funding essentially goes to undergraduate students and graduate students get nothing most likely under the premise that we can afford to take out the loans and will pay them back. I almost feel used and I think it's akin to raising taxes on the rich to pay for the social programs of the poor. The government can do what it wants, but I don't like the idea that they will fund certain students while giving no aid to others because "you'll make six figures, you can pay it back. Student X is going to school to major in Icelandic literature and will take 6 years to do so while costing us $90,000. He can't afford to pay for his education solely by loans."

    Education is an investment. I'm not asking that it be free, I'm asking that education funding should be more fair with grad students not seen as the net payers because we will make more. It should be equal regardless of what you major in or what level of degree you are getting. I fully expect to payback my debts as this is the right thing to do. However, I don't like being tossed under the buss because I'l be able to pay it back while others will not due directly to their career/major choices.
    Last edited by digsbe; 05-20-12 at 01:00 AM.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Should anything be done for graduate/professional students?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Seeing that people are already getting a pretty damn sweet deal, with access to thousands of dollars, with nary any credit history and an under market interest rate.
    I think enough has been done for students.
    I'm paying on student loans right now, and, as I start to make more, I pay more. It was my choice to take the loans and it's my responsibility to pay them back.

  7. #37
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    Re: Should anything be done for graduate/professional students?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Grad plus loans are based on credit, and you cannot erase student loans by declaring bankruptcy. The feds can also garnish wages to pay back loans.

    I see it as the fed's way of milking money from students They figure grad students will make 6+ figures one day and can pay all that back.
    Digs, all financial institutions try to loan money only to those they believe can someday pay it back. That's why a credit history is so important in the first place.

  8. #38
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    Re: Should anything be done for graduate/professional students?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I'm expressing my beliefs, I don't view it as "complaining." My main problem is that under current funding undergrads get all of it. If the premise is aiding students in education I don't think it's right to focus on others while grad students become the net payers with no aid and more interest/no subsidized loans. I have accepted the terms as they exist today, but I don't think it's right that all funding essentially goes to undergraduate students and graduate students get nothing most likely under the premise that we can afford to take out the loans and will pay them back. I almost feel used and I think it's akin to raising taxes on the rich to pay for the social programs of the poor. The government can do what it wants, but I don't like the idea that they will fund certain students while giving no aid to others because "you'll make six figures, you can pay it back. Student X is going to school to major in Icelandic literature and will take 6 years to do so while costing us $90,000. He can't afford to pay for his education solely by loans."
    I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you're already getting a good deal.
    The interest rate for your education, is already below what a lot of people pay for real property (aka, a house).
    You have no down payment requirement, no credit necessary (for stafford loans), etc.

    The cost of graduate school is much more than the cost of undergrad.
    The risk is higher to the lender and the people actually footing this are others, who're working.
    Many of whom, have never had the benefit of subsidized student loans.

    Like I said before man, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."
    You're being treated pretty well.

    The total cost of the loans you have, will be minor compared to your lifetime earnings.
    A lot of the people, who've subsidized your loans through taxes, will never earn the same amount as you have.
    I think you're taking too much of this for granted.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #39
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    Re: Should anything be done for graduate/professional students?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Digs, all financial institutions try to loan money only to those they believe can someday pay it back. That's why a credit history is so important in the first place.
    Student loans do not operate like this though. Stafford is assessed based on personal aid, not credit (grad plus loans are based on credit). Is it right that funding goes to all undergrads regardless of major/GPA while no funding goes to graduate students under the premise that "they can afford to pay it, let's give all the money to those who cannot directly due to their career choices." Should grad students get any aid aside from loans?
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  10. #40
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    Re: Should anything be done for graduate/professional students?

    What can be done for graduate and professional students. First of all, stop lying to them about the nature of the reality that awaits them. Graduate and professional schools should stop stealing their money.

    45,000 people will graduate from law school this year with a per capita indebtedness of $150,000. Only half of them will have the opportunity to practice law. Many of these young would be lawyers were lied to about their prospects, and induced to make investments that are foolish from a cost/benefit standpoint. These lies are a crime imo.

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