View Poll Results: Texas secession?

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  • Anytime they want

    69 60.00%
  • Bad times only

    2 1.74%
  • No way

    41 35.65%
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    0 0%
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    3 2.61%
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Thread: Texas secession?

  1. #851
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    Re: Texas secession?

    A few things to note:

    Comparing states to countries that can secede at any time they want is FACTUALLY incorrect. They are not countries. The U.S. is not the EU, where countries assist each other. A better term for the states is principalities. A state can only be founded with permission of Congress.

    And to say that the Union simply conquered innocent rebels is incorrect also, because Union facilities were attacked by the CSA BEFORE the Civil War.
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  2. #852
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    A few things to note:

    Comparing states to countries that can secede at any time they want is FACTUALLY incorrect. They are not countries. The U.S. is not the EU, where countries assist each other. A better term for the states is principalities. A state can only be founded with permission of Congress.

    And to say that the Union simply conquered innocent rebels is incorrect also, because Union facilities were attacked by the CSA BEFORE the Civil War.
    So your identification of a 'state' should replace that of the framers of our government. Sure.

    Have you been keeping up with the discussion or just jumped in. Might should read some.

    Quantrill

  3. #853
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    So your identification of a 'state' should replace that of the framers of our government. Sure.

    Have you been keeping up with the discussion or just jumped in. Might should read some.

    Quantrill

    It's more like you refusing to accept not only what other posters have shown you but also years of judicial precedent and the writings of the most influential of those men we call the Founding Fathers. You have an extremely limited view of history, rejecting every fact, action and deed that does not fit that limited viewpoint.


    It is difficult, No - it is impossible to discuss this matter with one who lives in their own little world, adulating those who at times were great men but in other ways were all too human with all of the failings that being human entails. One could easily take away the assumption from your writings that you honestly believe slavery was not such a big deal and that you in particular would not mind living in a time and place where you could have owned another human being.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
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  4. #854
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    It's more like you refusing to accept not only what other posters have shown you but also years of judicial precedent and the writings of the most influential of those men we call the Founding Fathers. You have an extremely limited view of history, rejecting every fact, action and deed that does not fit that limited viewpoint.
    What efforts exactly has anyone taken to show writing of the founders that say secession is illegal in the Constitution?

  5. #855
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    It's more like you refusing to accept not only what other posters have shown you but also years of judicial precedent and the writings of the most influential of those men we call the Founding Fathers. You have an extremely limited view of history, rejecting every fact, action and deed that does not fit that limited viewpoint.


    It is difficult, No - it is impossible to discuss this matter with one who lives in their own little world, adulating those who at times were great men but in other ways were all too human with all of the failings that being human entails. One could easily take away the assumption from your writings that you honestly believe slavery was not such a big deal and that you in particular would not mind living in a time and place where you could have owned another human being.
    Slavery is an apt description of a taxpayer that has their weekly wages garnished for the express purpose of supporting the life of another citzen, simply because that other citizen has chosen not to support themself or their family by working. If one is forced to work yet the proceeds do not belong to them, but to another individual not designated by them to receive those proceeds, totally beyond their control, perhaps even living in another state that is indeed slavery.

    Welfare has made slaves of the working, yet they are expressly forbidden to even require that the ones that they are forced to support either must remain sober or make efforts to cease their need for endless support, as these welfare receiving parasites have "equal" rights to the proceeds of the labor of another that has 'chosen' to work. It is charity, if I choose to help my neighbor in need, it is tyranny, if you force me to help your neighbor in need.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 05-27-12 at 01:49 PM.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #856
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    Re: Texas secession?

    The state of Texas is banned by federal law to refuse to bear the costs of educating, giving medical care to and otherwise caring for illegal aliens within its borders, removing them by force or even turning them over to federal officials for deportation. That is a big harm to the state, imposed by remaining a part of the U.S. that has no remedy under the constitution (so far). The state of Texas should be either allowed to cecede or to sue the federal gov't for the ENTIRE reimbursement of these costs, suffered by Texan's ONLY because the federal gov't will neither enforce existing laws on immigration nor allow that the state of Texas do so on its own.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 05-27-12 at 02:04 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Neither of which guaranteed the right to own slaves forever. It was completely possible for Congress to pass a law that made it illegal, thus the South seceded because they were afraid that would happen. Nowhere in the Constitution is the right to own another human being written in it, neither of these things that you point to did not guarantee a perpetual right to own another person.

    Dred Scott was a slave who, years later, sued for his freedom because his owner took him into free territory at one point. The argument was that he became perpetually free, despite his later return to a slave state. Had he sued for his freedom while in free territory, it's possible that he would have had a point. Ironically, for your love of this ruling, the ruling was anti-states rights as it effectively invalidated a state's right to make slavery illegal in it's territory. It did NOT, however, say that slavery could never be made illegal, it upheld the legality at the time.
    You know you are arguing with a Cretin when the basis of his argument is his right to own other human beings.
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    It's more like you refusing to accept not only what other posters have shown you but also years of judicial precedent and the writings of the most influential of those men we call the Founding Fathers. You have an extremely limited view of history, rejecting every fact, action and deed that does not fit that limited viewpoint.


    It is difficult, No - it is impossible to discuss this matter with one who lives in their own little world, adulating those who at times were great men but in other ways were all too human with all of the failings that being human entails. One could easily take away the assumption from your writings that you honestly believe slavery was not such a big deal and that you in particular would not mind living in a time and place where you could have owned another human being.
    I think you've figured him out. When you get all of your historical knowledge from websites with the Confederate Flag at the top, you come to believe that slavery really was a pretty good thing and worth destroying the nation over.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

    Dick Rowe, A & R man
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    London, 1962

  9. #859
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What efforts exactly has anyone taken to show writing of the founders that say secession is illegal in the Constitution?
    Why would it even matter what the personal writings of a founder say?
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Yes, that official body flouted and disregarded the Constitution, making them wrong with the Constitution. That official body determined that union based on the Constitution was no good. So, they went to a different and higher law.

    Again, they destroyed the glue which held the union together. They are the traitors.

    Quantrill
    So who died and appointed you God? You seem to reject everything except your own opinion.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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