View Poll Results: Texas secession?

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  • Anytime they want

    69 60.00%
  • Bad times only

    2 1.74%
  • No way

    41 35.65%
  • I don't know

    0 0%
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    3 2.61%
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Thread: Texas secession?

  1. #71
    Educator Quantrill's Avatar
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Most interpretations of treason see any attempt to bring down a legitimate government, without cause, as treason. Guy Fawkes was executed as a traitor, and he tried to kill the King. He didn't conspire with foreign governments. It doesn't require foreign help to be treasonous. All it takes is trying to disrupt the function of said government without just cause. Syria isn't in the midst of a treasonous wave of actions, because there are legitimate levels of oppression by the state.



    So that's my point. What would be the point of calling it a union if all states are able to come and go when they please? We would have no foundation for a nation, just independent states that share borders but are otherwise 100% sovereign from each other.

    Arbitrary secession is not only illegal under the Constitution, I doubt the Framers were dumb enough to think that a new nation could survive by letting each state go it's own way without some point of singular authority.



    It's got nothing to do with "control" and everything to do with a working system. The Framers set about creating a nation that was a union of independent states under the limited guidance of the federal government. If they wanted a free state sh!tshow, why did they even bother creating the federal government?



    I'm saying they ought to be able to, not that they necessarily should.
    [/QUOTE]

    Where in the Constitution prior to 1861 does it say secession is illegal?

    Quantrill

  2. #72
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    The Southern states were being oppressed. They consisted of the Southern white people.

    Quantrill
    Ha! The slaves weren't oppressed, it was the white people who owned slaves! They were the ones being oppressed!

    Revisionism, anyone?

  3. #73
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Let me pose a hypothetical question...

    IF a large majority of Texans (or whatever state, really) decided they didn't want to be part of the USA anymore....

    ... what is your moral justification for making them stay? And could this justification also be used to prevent someone as an individual from leaving the US and renouncing their citizenship, but taking their assets with them?


    I'll be interested in the answers to this...


    And the crickets say.... chirp.... chirp.... chirp....

    ...as nobody wants to take that one on apparently....

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  4. #74
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Ha! The slaves weren't oppressed, it was the white people who owned slaves! They were the ones being oppressed!

    Revisionism, anyone?
    seems to me that there was no shortage of oppression occurring.
    yes, slaves were oppressed... but that doesn't preclude the union from oppressing the south.. it just means that the union's oppression was more palatable than the
    slave owners oppression.

  5. #75
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    And the crickets say.... chirp.... chirp.... chirp....

    ...as nobody wants to take that one on apparently....
    A small group of people in relation to a large national population have no right to forcibly excuse themselves from their rightful place in the levels of government. They have a right to leave the nation and take all their stuff with them and renounce the US and all that but they do not have a right to remake their section of the nation however they see fit.

  6. #76
    Educator Quantrill's Avatar
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Ha! The slaves weren't oppressed, it was the white people who owned slaves! They were the ones being oppressed!

    Revisionism, anyone?
    No one said there were no slaves. The question you asked concerned secession. Pay attention and quit trying to change the subject. Where in the Constitution prior to 1861 did it say secession was illegal?

    Quantrill

  7. #77
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    And the crickets say.... chirp.... chirp.... chirp....

    ...as nobody wants to take that one on apparently....
    I'd like to take it... but I can't come up with a moral justification .. I don't fall on the side that disallows succession.

  8. #78
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    seems to me that there was no shortage of oppression occurring.
    yes, slaves were oppressed... but that doesn't preclude the union from oppressing the south.. it just means that the union's oppression was more palatable than the
    slave owners oppression.
    Oppression is granting other human beings their rights, I guess.

  9. #79
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    A small group of people in relation to a large national population have no right to forcibly excuse themselves from their rightful place in the levels of government. They have a right to leave the nation and take all their stuff with them and renounce the US and all that but they do not have a right to remake their section of the nation however they see fit.
    they have no right to self determination within their geographical political block?

  10. #80
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Oppression is granting other human beings their rights, I guess.
    no, it's not... open you mind a lil bit more to see what i'm saying

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