View Poll Results: Texas secession?

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    69 60.00%
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    2 1.74%
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    41 35.65%
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    3 2.61%
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Thread: Texas secession?

  1. #701
    Mod Conspiracy Theorist
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Please look up that clause. I told you already why it doesn't apply to the AOC. This shouldn't be hard to understand.
    Tell us again. Because it specifically mentions the Articles in Article VI. I know that it's the whole "Lincoln/Chase" thing that bothers you, but I can't say that I believe that you're a bigger Constitutional authority than any Supreme Court Justice there ever has been.

    Your views are one thing. I don't particularly like the Citizens United ruling, but I don't see how it could have been ruled any other way by the Supreme Court.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  2. #702
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    It's not less valid than others, nor did I say it was.
    But you throw out the "perpetual union" as mentioned in it. If it was valid as a "treaty" in 1860, and if it is valid as one today, there is no possiblity for secession that I can see.

    You may want to be able to, but legally, I don't see it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  3. #703
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Sure. They aren't too big to fail.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  4. #704
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    Re: Texas secession?

    All non-Texans who believe that everybody in Texas has an oil well in their backyard...and everybody is a cowboy or cowgirl...and in Rick Perry's case...a trans-cow-goatish something or another...Please Raise Your Hand!

    There is so much nonsense I see about people's beliefs about Texas' wealth and great resources. Yes, there are resources and wealth, but there are a millions of people who won't be contributing to the state's revenue requirements needed to maintain the expenses of running a country. I was born in Texas, never lived outside of Texas...and I've been around for quite a few decades. Texas cannot. I repeat, Texas cannot survive as an independent nation. Texas would rapidly turn into a 3rd world country if it seceded. Anybody in Texas with any sense at all knows we can't make it.

  5. #705
    Sage

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Evidence of that fact that the states prior to creating the constitution were free, independent, and sovereign states?

    Evidence that they sent delegates to a convention, that these delegates wrote a constitution, that this constitution was returned to the states for ratification, and that the states then ratified this agreement?

    Evidence that the constitution contains no language in which any of the states relinquish their status as sovereign states?

    You need evidence for these basic historical facts? I thought you were supposed to be some sort of history teacher.
    Actually, it was returned to the people who attended conventions in the states for ratification.

    That reality destroys your whole premise that somehow THE STATES are these independent self sufficient god-like entities apart from the people who actually did the voting for ratification.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #706
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The US government never recognized S. Carolina's succession and never recognized the South as separate from the Union nor recognized the confederate government. They never left the union. Sorry....


    Lincoln proclamation - September 24, 1862...


    From Lincoln's last speech before his assassination....


    Scalia said in his letter, "Is the state suing the United States for Declartory judgement? But the United States cannot be sued without it's consent, and it has not consented to this sort of suit."

    Conclusion: Lincoln nor the US government never recognized the states seccession. Now let's hear your rebel yell. lol
    The Central government did not have the authority to decide if a state could leave the Union. That was the States decision. It doesn't matter whether or not Lincoln recognized it. It mattered as to going to war. It doesn't matter to the legaity of it. Every state had the right to secede.

    The Central or Federal govt of course does not want the States to secede. It loses power because it gets its power from the states.

    Quantrill

  7. #707
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Feed that line to your buddies but don't bother doing it here. SC made an agreement with the government then didn't want to honor it. They should have thought of it before they handed over the deed and the Fed spent money building on site. Did they bother to give or even offer the Fed money for the improvements? Of course not. They knew what they were doing was wrong - they just didn't give a ****.

    And if you believe the kind of thing SC tried to pull flies in other parts of the world you should ask Castro about Guantanamo Bay.
    Sorry pal. I will feed it here also. Because its true. And you want to talk about not honoring your agreement, go to the Constitution and see how the north failed to acknowledg the protection of slavery under the Constitution. See how the north was guilty of sending terrorists such as John Brown to the South to disrupt, kill, and create a slave revolt. So, talk about 'honor' to you buddies. But don't talk about it here. You have none.

    Quantrill

  8. #708
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    And according to Article VI of the Constitution, all engagements entered into under the Articles are still valid. The only way that's not true, is if the Constitution explicitly says something else.

    If, as Centinel does, you view it as a treaty of sorts, the "treaty" of the Articles of Confederation, which by its wording is a "perpetual union," is valid. It is as valid as the treaties and agreements entered into with France during the Revolution and immediately following.
    I view the Constitution as the Constitution. It is upon it that the Union functions. The States within the Union are bound by that Constitution. When you replace the Constitution with another Constitution, then that former union ceases to exist. It exist now under the new Constitution.

    So, as I have said, the Ariticles of Confederation were chunked out the window. That union was declared perpetual but that union ceased to exist. The perpetual union wasnt perpetual as it got throwed out the window. Thus now only 9 states were needed to ratify. Because they didn't think they could get all to ratify. Different union.

    And as I have said, the framers had enough shame in them to not add hypocrisy to their actions of destroying what was declared perpetual. Which is why 'perpeutual' was left out of this one.

    Quantrill
    Last edited by Quantrill; 05-24-12 at 07:42 PM.

  9. #709
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Actually all Southernors were loyal Americans. But we lost the war.

    You say many things but support none.

    Quantrill
    Nope, every one of them that volunteered to take up arms vs the lawful govt was a traitor. Many CSA soldiers were draftees, and the CSA army had a desertion rate more than double the US Army.

    But the officers and officials of the CSA should have been executed as traitors. The US was far too soft on them, only executing a single CSA officer for war crimes.

  10. #710
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Actually all Southernors were loyal Americans. But we lost the war.

    You say many things but support none.

    Quantrill
    Oh yeah, you didn't lose the war. You weren't even alive yet.

    And every one of my statements was backed by fact. Yours are delusion. I do this for a living as a history professor, demolish neo Confederate delusions.

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