View Poll Results: Texas secession?

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Thread: Texas secession?

  1. #661
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Except the law of land never changed and it still holds that secession is legal. A horrible ruling might allow idiots to claim otherwise, but it doesn't change the reality of what is written.

    In order for him to claim that the pledge of alliance is accurate he actually has to defend Texas v. White and he can't possibly do that without looking like a fool.
    In matters of statehood and such, it is good law. It was overruled only in relation to bonds. I'm not defending it other than of course saying that because it hasn't been overruled as to the constitutional matters we're discussing, it's still good law and accordingly the law of the land.

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    First of all, that was 1869. After the War between the States. During the Reconstruction years and Courts. Which were puposefully seated with yankee partisans. This decision plays a role now. It played no role then prior to the war. Second of all, give the exact quote that indicates that states could not leave the union.

    Quantrill
    Right, coming back the states were forced to accept it. And that was done. Sad story... now they can get over it.

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Yes, under our present system - NO state can secede
    i'm what you mean to say is that "no state can legally unilaterally secede"...because "no state can secede " is not accurate.

    there are methods for successful secession available to any state.

  4. #664
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    Re: Texas secession?

    C
    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    So we have the peace treaty between Great Britain and her former colonies in which is is documented that they are now free, sovereign, and independent states. But you guys don't take this as evidence that they regarded themselves and each other as such. Perhaps this one document was a fluke.

    How about the articles of confederation: "Article II. Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every Power, Jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled." So we have documentation that each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence. The use of the word "retain" seems to indicate that sovereignty, independence, and freedom are preexisting attributes of each of the states.
    So yourConstitutional argument isn't even based on the Constitution? The wording of a treaty doesn't mean much as far as the "right to secede."


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    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  5. #665
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Probably a mistake but as "colonies" the various groups that became states following the Revolution were in no shape, fashion or form "free, sovereign, and independent states"
    Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

  6. #666
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    "importation" Big word. Slavery was legal and protectected by the Constitution. You just could no longer import slaves.

    Quantrill
    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    No, it was agreed that the foreign slave trade wouldn't be touched for 20 years, and the foreign slave trade was banned. The domestic slave trade and slavery were both completely legal.
    Okay, I concede both your points. However, it does appear that after Article 1, section 9 expired congress could ban slavery and I'm not seeing where slavery is protected after 1808....


    Article V [No Constitutional Amendment to Ban Slavery Until 1808]
    ...No Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article.
    The Thirteenth Amendment: Slavery and the Constitution

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    We're not talking about the constitution. We are discussing whether or not the 13 colonies were free, sovereign, and independent states prior to the constitution.
    I've already stated that the wording of the Declaration of Independence did not lead me to believe that.
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They sure has hell didn't reverse it or say otherwise.
    Did/do we continue to collect Federal taxes based on land value? Or is there somewhere in the Constitution that says the Fed can't do that?
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  9. #669
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    South Carolina retained jursdiction. They still existed. The Federal govts right to the land no longer did. In other words, we are leaving your union and you need to leave our land.

    Don't need anything in the 1836 resolution to say anything. The land was not the Federal govts. Its belonged to S. Carolina. When she seceded, then the Fed. govt has to leave. They are tresspassing.

    Still building it. Since 1829. Unfinished maybe. Oh yeah, it offered a lot of protection.

    Quantrill
    If the land belonged to SC then there would have been no reason to add in the 'serve processes' clause.
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I haven't read all 600+ posts, but what do you think of this? Do you think no state can ever secede from the USA?
    I'm not sure, but I'm leaning toward the notion that the Civil War settled the issue once and for all. After all, the south did lose and the winner decides the terms of surrender. But apparently, the war started before the southern states could seceed and Lincoln treated it as an insurrection or rebellion rather than a declared war. But I'm still reading.....

    McLaughlin: Constitutional History of the United States (1936)

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