View Poll Results: Texas secession?

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Thread: Texas secession?

  1. #511
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    The united states are a federation of sovereign republics, not a single republic.
    That's a radical interpretation that not many outside of ultra-libertarian thnk tanks would hold.

    Yes, it was meant to strengthen the bonds between the states. However, the states were and continue to remain free, independent, and sovereign republics.
    Yet they gave up everything that would make them sovereign. Military, currency, and control of foreign affairs were what made a sovereign state in the 18th Century. There was no UN to give you a seat, if you didn't have those 3 things, you simply weren't sovereign. You're grafting a 21st Century understanding of sovereignty onto the 18th Century.

    It was the founding of one institution that took over all the trappings of sovereignty. Doubtless, the founders understood this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  2. #512
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    Re: Texas secession?

    As a resident of Texas, I see no reason that Texan's would seek such an action. I am an American first and Texan a close second. With the current situation in Mexico, Texas would soon find itself virtually at war with Mexico. Not a declared war, but a war against the criminal cartels that virtually control Mexico and that would soon try to control Texas. I see no situation that our nation would allow a state to secede without a fight.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #513
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Journal of Libertarian Studies
    Volume 17, no. 4 (Fall 2003), pp. 39–100
    Ó2004 Ludwig von Mises Institute
    Ludwig von Mises Institute : The Austrian School Is Advancing Liberty
    39
    THE CONSTITUTIONAL
    RIGHT OF SECESSION IN
    POLITICAL THEORY AND HISTORY

    In the case of Texas v. White (1868), the Supreme Court
    of the United States effectively delegitimized secession as a viable
    constitutional option when it held that the unilateral secession of a
    state was unconstitutional.76 In addition, the War Between the States
    came at a terrible cost in lives and property. Had there been an express
    constitutional right of secession inserted in the U.S. Constitution,
    the War itself might have been averted.77
    Although secession as an inherent right of the several States was
    effectively delegitimized by the Union victory over the South and by
    Texas v. White, peaceful secessions guided by the rule of law were not
    completely unknown. Robert A. Young cites three such examples: the
    secession of Hungary from Austria in 1867, the secession of Norway
    from Sweden in 1905, and the secession of Singapore from Malaysia
    in 1965.
    Please tell the reading audience what the difference(s) might be when comparing the peaceful secessions noted and any such attempt in the US
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

  4. #514
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Journal of Libertarian Studies
    Volume 17, no. 4 (Fall 2003), pp. 39–100
    Ó2004 Ludwig von Mises Institute
    Ludwig von Mises Institute : The Austrian School Is Advancing Liberty
    39
    THE CONSTITUTIONAL
    RIGHT OF SECESSION IN
    POLITICAL THEORY AND HISTORY



    Please tell the reading audience what the difference(s) might be when comparing the peaceful secessions noted and any such attempt in the US
    The other secessions did not take place in the United States. Therefore, the United States Constitution does not apply.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  5. #515
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Again, if you go through the easy steps I have outlined for you - and I have provided you with the necessary resources - you will have your own answer to your own question staring you right in the face.
    Question? What question?

  6. #516
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Exactly. Its the Constitution of the USA. No more need to be said.

    And in it, the States gave up lots of power that they had under the Articles to belong to a nation that had a future - which it most certainly may not have had under the weak Articles. They had sovereignity and gave some of it up for a higher purpose.
    The states sent delegates to a convention. A document was drafted. That document was sent back to the states for ratification. And the states ratified it.

    The constitution is an compact among free, independent, sovereign states. Generally such an agreement is called a treaty, but feel free to call it whatever you like. What you call it doesn't change the fact that the sates were and continue to be sovereign and the federal government was created by them as their agent to carry out certain specific tasks. To empower their agent to undertake these tasks, the states delegated some of their authority.

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Other than your own personal opinion about this "federation" allegation, what can you cite to show evidence of this claim?
    Evidence of that fact that the states prior to creating the constitution were free, independent, and sovereign states?

    Evidence that they sent delegates to a convention, that these delegates wrote a constitution, that this constitution was returned to the states for ratification, and that the states then ratified this agreement?

    Evidence that the constitution contains no language in which any of the states relinquish their status as sovereign states?

    You need evidence for these basic historical facts? I thought you were supposed to be some sort of history teacher.

  8. #518
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    That's a radical interpretation that not many outside of ultra-libertarian thnk tanks would hold.
    I have no idea what they do in libertarian think tanks, nor does my position have anything to do with libertarianism. It is simply an understanding of the historical origins of the union among our states.

    Yet they gave up everything that would make them sovereign.
    They did not give up any power. They delegated powers to the union. As sovereign states, they alone determine what powers they choose to exercise for themselves and which they choose to delegate to an agent.

  9. #519
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    To a lesser extent certainly, but that still doesnt negate the fact that the South seceeded and fought a war, by their own admission, to preserve slavery.
    No, not lesser and probably greater. The North cared not for the negro.

    You misunderstand. The South didn't secede to preserve slavery. The South seceded because the North refused to treat them as equals. The North was going to use the slave issue to destroy the Souths economy. And the North had no constitutional grounds to do it. Yet they were continually allowing the constant attacks against the South concerning slavery.

    The South legally had nothing to fear. But thats only if all parties were legal abiding parties. And the North now was fortelling the 'irresistable conflict' concerning slavery, as Seward says. And Lincoln was telling how a house divided cannot stand, concerning slavery. Yet it was protected. Nothing the South should fear. The Federal govt. had no say.

    Consider, the Dred Scott decision. The South could take its slaves anywhere in the country it wanted.

    But the South knew the North would not abide these decisions. They called the Constitution a covenant with hell. They claimed they came under a 'higher law'.

    So, you see. The South didn't secede to preserve slavery. The South seceded because they were not offered equal protection under the Constitution.

    Quantrill

  10. #520
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The other secessions did not take place in the United States. Therefore, the United States Constitution does not apply.
    well, sure

    another difference is, those other secessions took place within the framework of their laws... which his also possible under our Constitution.

    it's not that secession is unconstitutional.. it's that unilateral secession is unconstitutional.

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