View Poll Results: Texas secession?

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Thread: Texas secession?

  1. #501
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Then ask yourself a very simple question: what changed between those early days of the USA and the current powers that states have?
    What changed was the the states ****canned the articles and entered into a new compact in which the delegated more powers to the federation.

    What’s your point? Sovereign states leave and enter various treaties and compacts all the time. However, they still remain sovereign.

    Are you taking the position that what you call international law is superior in authority to the US Constitution?
    Nope. I’m saying that the states were and are sovereign, and they created the federal government through a voluntary compact. Since the compact places no restrictions on exit and has no specific time limit, international law and historical precedent would indicate that any of the states may exit when they wish.

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Here is another source. A quote from Samuel White of Delaware from a speech delievered to the Senate on Nov. 2, 1803 concerning the Louisiana Purchase. Anals of America, Encyclopedia Britanica, p.175

    " Louisiana must and will become settled if we hold it, and with the very population that would otherwise occuppy part of our present territory. Thus our citizens will be removed to the immense distance of 2,000 or 3,000 miles from the capital of the Union...their affections will become alilenated; they will gradually begin to view us as strangers; they will form other commercial connections; and our interests will become distinct.

    "These, with other causes that human wisdom may not now forsee, will in time effect a separation, and I fear our bounds will be fixed nearer to our houses than the waters of the Mississippi. "

    So, as you can see, from the very begining the New England States were concerned over losing power and wealth and control over the new government. And it is for these very reasons that I believe the power in the North had made the determination that it simply must conquer the South in order to protect this power and interests. Slavery was an issue that was there and could be used against the South later.

    Quantrill
    Neither of these things say anything about ruining the Southern economy. Both are about Westward expansion.

    I don't know how a quote from one guy from Delaware says anything about New England's power grab. Delaware isn't a New England state, and if anything in 1803, they would have been more on the side of admitting more slave states, as Delaware was a slave state. Even though it says "Louisiana," the Louisiana Territory as added was much bigger than what became the state of Louisiana. He could have been as concerned about what is Iowa now.

    At any rate, making the leap from this to "See, they were out to destroy the South" is a HUGE stretch. Both of these quotes are more about East vs. West than they are North vs. South.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    What changed was the the states ****canned the articles and entered into a new compact in which the delegated more powers to the federation.

    What’s your point? Sovereign states leave and enter various treaties and compacts all the time. However, they still remain sovereign.



    Nope. I’m saying that the states were and are sovereign, and they created the federal government through a voluntary compact. Since the compact places no restrictions on exit and has no specific time limit, international law and historical precedent would indicate that any of the states may exit when they wish.
    The Constitution of the United States is not a treaty.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    The supreriority of the anglo-saxon over the negroe was held by both North and South. Including Lincoln.

    Quantrill
    Sure, many held the view that whites were superior. Not exactly uncommon for the time, but it was also fairly common in the North to believe that while blacks were "inferior," owning people as property was wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The Constitution of the United States is not a treaty.
    Not a treaty? It’s an agreement between free, sovereign, and independent states. What else could it be?

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Not a treaty? It’s an agreement between free, sovereign, and independent states. What else could it be?
    The founding document of a Republic. That's why we call the people that wrote it "founders" instead of "diplomats."

    It was also meant to strengthen the bond of a bunch of states held together in a very loose Confederation.
    Last edited by rocket88; 05-22-12 at 12:15 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  7. #507
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    What changed was the the states ****canned the articles and entered into a new compact in which the delegated more powers to the federation.

    Whatís your point? Sovereign states leave and enter various treaties and compacts all the time. However, they still remain sovereign.



    Nope. Iím saying that the states were and are sovereign, and they created the federal government through a voluntary compact. Since the compact places no restrictions on exit and has no specific time limit, international law and historical precedent would indicate that any of the states may exit when they wish.
    I see by your response that you failed to do your homework.

    Again, if you go through the easy steps I have outlined for you - and I have provided you with the necessary resources - you will have your own answer to your own question staring you right in the face.

    Discovery is a wonderful experience.
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The Constitution of the United States is not a treaty.
    Exactly. Its the Constitution of the USA. No more need to be said.

    And in it, the States gave up lots of power that they had under the Articles to belong to a nation that had a future - which it most certainly may not have had under the weak Articles. They had sovereignity and gave some of it up for a higher purpose.
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The founding document of a Republic.
    The united states are a federation of sovereign republics, not a single republic.

    That's why we call the people that wrote it "founders" instead of "diplomats."
    I believe they were called delegates. They were sent to the convention by their respective states.

    It was also meant to strengthen the bond of a bunch of states held together in a very loose Confederation.
    Yes, it was meant to strengthen the bonds between the states. However, the states were and continue to remain free, independent, and sovereign republics.

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    The united states are a federation of sovereign republics, not a single republic.


    I believe they were called delegates. They were sent to the convention by their respective states.



    Yes, it was meant to strengthen the bonds between the states. However, the states were and continue to remain free, independent, and sovereign republics.
    Other than your own personal opinion about this "federation" allegation, what can you cite to show evidence of this claim?
    __________________________________________________ _
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