View Poll Results: Texas secession?

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Thread: Texas secession?

  1. #411
    Educator Quantrill's Avatar
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Earlier in the thread, a comment was made that referenced a SCOTUS case, Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) (There's another Texas v. White decision from 1975, not relevant to this topic)

    The majority decision as written by Chief Justice Salmon Chase had the following:
    my emphasis

    Now - you were saying? Of course, Supreme Court decisions can be overturned at any sitting of the SCOTUS but normally, precedent does hold a strong position in determining such rulings. The present Roberts-led court does have a record of rejecting earlier decisions.
    The fact is that the Articles of Confederation were tossed out. The 'perpetual' union went with it. The framers had enough shame in them to not add hypocrisy by declaring this new Constitution 'perpeutal' since they just destroyed the other 'perpetual' one.

    Your example of Texas vs. White is in the middle of the Reconstruction period where the Courts are all slanted. Constitutional govt is being tramped on. And the methods of making ammedments and laws are a joke and travesty.

    Quantrill

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    No, it was the constant movement of the North in treating the Southern States as unequals. It was the Norths constant refusal to acknowledge the Souths rights under the Constitution.

    Quantrill
    Money was part of it, as was slavery. There were many many reasons why the Civil War happened.

    Essentially, the Southern ruling class thought that their future was better served outside of the Union. They were, most certainly, ardent capitalists who thought that tarriffs and abolitionist sentiment threatened their ability to make a profit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  3. #413
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Cool. Someone earlier had indicated that the states were never sovereign. I'm glad we've established that they were and continue to be sovereign, free, and independent.
    Well, I'd say more "interdependent" than "indpendent." It was that way in the 1850s, and is even more true today.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  4. #414
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    The fact is that the Articles of Confederation were tossed out. The 'perpetual' union went with it. The framers had enough shame in them to not add hypocrisy by declaring this new Constitution 'perpeutal' since they just destroyed the other 'perpetual' one.

    Your example of Texas vs. White is in the middle of the Reconstruction period where the Courts are all slanted. Constitutional govt is being tramped on. And the methods of making ammedments and laws are a joke and travesty.

    Quantrill

    Certainly can see a continuing pattern of refusal to actually study history. Always 'nice' to encounter someone with, shall we say - a 'flexible' interpretation of reality. If it fits with one's Truth, it is true - if it doesn't fit, it obviously is not true and why should anyone bother to check for themselves.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Well, I'd say more "interdependent" than "indpendent." It was that way in the 1850s, and is even more true today.
    Certainly interdependent economically, but independent politically.

  6. #416
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    You believe it means Americans as a whole, and not as represented by the States? Then the States need not ratify. Americans as a whole are represented by the delegates already in the 1787 convention.

    Quantrill
    The CONVENTIONS of the various states were the mechanism in which the PEOPLE expressed their approval or disapproval of the proposed Constitution. And guess who made up those CONVENTIONS? People... citizens .... Americans.

    http://teachingamericanhistory.org/ratification/

    http://www.archives.gov/education/le...ification.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...s_Constitution

    Obviously they wanted a far larger and far broader electorate for approval than the mere 55 who made up the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia.

    For example Virginia had but three of their seven delegates who signed the US Constitution. They had 168 in their ratification convention.

    They were attempting to go to the people and used the already existing man made contrivance of states to do that.
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-20-12 at 02:25 PM.
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  7. #417
    Educator Quantrill's Avatar
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Certainly can see a continuing pattern of refusal to actually study history. Always 'nice' to encounter someone with, shall we say - a 'flexible' interpretation of reality. If it fits with one's Truth, it is true - if it doesn't fit, it obviously is not true and why should anyone bother to check for themselves.
    If you can disprove it according to history, then why don't you instead of whining about what I said.

    Quantrill

  8. #418
    Educator Quantrill's Avatar
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The CONVENTIONS of the various states were the mechanism in which the PEOPLE expressed their approval or disapproval of the proposed Constitution. And guess who made up those CONVENTIONS? People... citizens .... Americans.

    Ratification of the Constitution

    Observing Constitution Day

    Timeline of drafting and ratification of the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Obviously they wanted a far larger and far broader electorate for approval than the mere 55 who made up the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia.

    For example Virginia had but three of their seven delegates who signed the US Constitution. They had 168 in their ratification convention.

    They were attempting to go to the people and used the already existing man made contrivance of states to do that.
    Thats exactly right. It is the people of the States as States that determined if the Constitution would be ratified. It was not the population of Americans at large. Because 'we the people' were the people of the individual sovereign states. Else there would have been no need for any ratification.

    Quantrill

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    If you can disprove it according to history, then why don't you instead of whining about what I said.

    Quantrill
    The south fought the war to preserve slavery. The north fought the war to preserve the Union. Fighting a war and killing americans in order to preserve the right to own other people has to be one of the most despicable reasons anybody ever went to war. All the southern revisionist history sites in the world won't change that fact.
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  10. #420
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    The south fought the war to preserve slavery. The north fought the war to preserve the Union. Fighting a war and killing americans in order to preserve the right to own other people has to be one of the most despicable reasons anybody ever went to war. All the southern revisionist history sites in the world won't change that fact.
    It was one of the causes. There were many.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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