View Poll Results: Texas secession?

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  • Anytime they want

    69 60.00%
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    2 1.74%
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    41 35.65%
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    0 0%
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    3 2.61%
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Thread: Texas secession?

  1. #121
    Educator Quantrill's Avatar
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Zzzzzzzz, this is why I brought up DUIs and child porn. There is no explicit statement made against either, just like there is no explicit mention of secession, yet both are still illegal. It has been established as legal precedent that states only have the right to revolt/secede in extenuating circumstances. The Civil War did not fall under that, no matter how much conservatives want to make the Civil War about nice people in the south being bullied just cause they owned human beings. You want something impossible from me, ironclad statements saying that succession is illegal. There is none. But there is even less in favor of your view, that states can leave the US whenever they feel like it. There is legal precedent directly rejecting this view.
    It didn't stop you from declaring secession unconstitutional.

    John Quincy Adams said in 1839:

    "To the people alone is there reserved as well the dissolving as the constituent power...we may admit the same right as vested in the people of every state in the Union with reference to the jGeneral Government, which was exercised by the people of the united colonies with reference to the supreme head of the jBritish Empire, of which they formed a part; and under these lilmitations (i.e. that the act of secession follow a breach of contract and be answerable to conscience) have the people of each state in the Union a right to secede from the confedereated Union itself. "

    from James M. Bulman, It Is Their Right, p. 61

    Quantrill
    Last edited by Quantrill; 05-19-12 at 01:01 PM.

  2. #122
    Educator Quantrill's Avatar
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    nothing can constitutionally occur that affects the political jurisdiction or sovereignty of a State without consent of the States.
    What is that supposed to say. Sounds like BS.

    Quantrill

  3. #123
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    Re: Texas secession?

    And concerning the Constitution of 1787 the state of Virginia said when ratifying the Constitution:

    "We the delegates of the people of Virginia, duly elected...do, in the name and behalf of the people of Virginia, declare and make known, that the powers granted under the constitution, being derived from the people of the United States, may be resumed by them, whenever the same shall be perverted to their injuury or oppression."

    Quantrill

  4. #124
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    It didn't stop you from declaring secession unconstitutional.

    John Quincy Adams said in 1839:

    "To the people alone is there reserved as well the dissolving as the constituent power...we may admit the same right as vested in the people of every state in the Union with reference to the jGeneral Government, which was exercised by the people of the united colonies with reference to the supreme head of the jBritish Empire, of which they formed a part; and under these lilmitations (i.e. that the act of secession follow a breach of contract and be answerable to conscience) have the people of each state in the Union a right to secede from the confedereated Union itself. "

    from James M. Bulman, It Is Their Right, p. 61

    Quantrill
    It IS unconstitutional, technically. That's why this is such a touchy subject, because it really does fall outside the general scope of Constitutional laws. Being a country born of revolution, we're are in a bit of an awkward spot; we acknowledge the right of revolution, considering we exercised it at one point. Most people would agree that when a government becomes despotic or is too far removed from the people's will, they have a right to dismantle it and rebuild to their liking. However, the right of revolution cannot be exercised like the right of free speech; this right carries very large responsibilities and high costs, thusly, it is limited. So, ironically, the Constitution holds two contradictory ideas; the right of revolution against government and also the protection of the government from uprising. So that's why there are so many strict limits and requirements for revolution to be legitimate.

    In the sense you are talking about, the right of any state to pack up and leave whenever it feels like it, you are dead wrong. In the sense that thrilla is referring to it, I disagree about some specifics, but he is generally right, if I'm reading his posts correctly.

  5. #125
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Makes no sense.

    The Southern States were not allowed the right to secede.

    Quantrill
    and their goal was to continue the practice of slavery.
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  6. #126
    Educator Quantrill's Avatar
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    It IS unconstitutional, technically. That's why this is such a touchy subject, because it really does fall outside the general scope of Constitutional laws. Being a country born of revolution, we're are in a bit of an awkward spot; we acknowledge the right of revolution, considering we exercised it at one point. Most people would agree that when a government becomes despotic or is too far removed from the people's will, they have a right to dismantle it and rebuild to their liking. However, the right of revolution cannot be exercised like the right of free speech; this right carries very large responsibilities and high costs, thusly, it is limited. So, ironically, the Constitution holds two contradictory ideas; the right of revolution against government and also the protection of the government from uprising. So that's why there are so many strict limits and requirements for revolution to be legitimate.

    In the sense you are talking about, the right of any state to pack up and leave whenever it feels like it, you are dead wrong. In the sense that thrilla is referring to it, I disagree about some specifics, but he is generally right, if I'm reading his posts correctly.
    Before 1861 it was not unconstitutional. Its a touchy subject because the US is a big hypocrit when it comes to its own states leaving. And the US or Northern States in the time of the War between the States, made war unconstitutionally with the Southern States.

    You can say technically all you want, but that is just bull. It was not unconstitutional which is why you cannot provide anything to prove it was.

    Quantrill

  7. #127
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    and their goal was to continue the practice of slavery.
    Their goal was to seek peace and prosperity outside the Union. Their goal makes no difference to the legality of secession. Secession was not unconstitutional.

    Quantrill

  8. #128
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Being a country born of revolution, we're are in a bit of an awkward spot; we acknowledge the right of revolution, considering we exercised it at one point.
    Every country on Planet Earth is born of revolution or conquest and consolidation. The Rule of the Gun determines borders.
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  9. #129
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Before 1861 it was not unconstitutional.
    Then ffs, either put up or you-know-what up. Use whatever time frame works best for your delusional argument. Christ almighty...

    Its a touchy subject because the US is a big hypocrit when it comes to its own states leaving. And the US or Northern States in the time of the War between the States, made war unconstitutionally with the Southern States.
    Oh, I'm sorry, my bad. I thought you wanted a debate on the Constitutionality of secession. I didn't realize you just wanted to B & M about things not being exactly to your liking.,

    You can say technically all you want, but that is just bull. It was not unconstitutional which is why you cannot provide anything to prove it was.
    Obviously, you don't read what I post. Good luck in future debates.

  10. #130
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    It did then yes. However, I wonder whether with our current round the clock video news cycle the people of the 49 remaining states would support such an occupation. I wonder whether they would have the stomach for the violence that would necessary to subjugate their fellow Americans.
    Afghanistan and Texas would be completely different in terms of morale I think because Texas is part of the homeland.

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