View Poll Results: Texas secession?

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  • Anytime they want

    69 60.00%
  • Bad times only

    2 1.74%
  • No way

    41 35.65%
  • I don't know

    0 0%
  • Other

    3 2.61%
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Thread: Texas secession?

  1. #1091
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What needs to be understood exactly that a two year old can't figure out?
    So lets see ..... a two year can figure it out but you cannot explain it yourself.

    That is clear.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #1092
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    So you only have the rights that the people can force the government to grant you. Same difference. In the end, you have the rights that the government say you have.
    You have the rights that the people force the government to recognize.

    Here is a news bulletin for you: if the government of the nation says YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHTS - you don't have em. That is called reality. It trumps and kicks the ass of ideology every single time.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #1093
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Its an accurate conclusion. As I showed, Brown was allowed to roam free in the North while a murderer. But the North wasn't concerned with Brown as murderer because he murdered Southern white people. So, its a just concusion that they would rather the Southern State hang him, though it was a Federal institution he attacked, then they hang him. Because they supported him.

    Quantrill
    Why do you think the Governor of Virginia wanted him tried in Virginia? He thought exactly the same way, that the Feds would let him go.

    The Gov asked to try him in Virginia, so they did. But they didn't pass him off on Virginia, Virginia asked for him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  4. #1094
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Why do you think the Governor of Virginia wanted him tried in Virginia? He thought exactly the same way, that the Feds would let him go.

    The Gov asked to try him in Virginia, so they did. But they didn't pass him off on Virginia, Virginia asked for him.
    Again, since when did the Federal govt listen to a Southern state. They passed him off because his work met with their approval. Wise wasn't so wise concerning this.

    And what was his charge. Treason against America? ummm? Should have been shouldn't it? I mean he attacked a Federal facility.

    The point not to lose here is that the Fed. govt let Brown roam free knowing he was a murderer. Let him plot his next attack against Southernors. Brown should have already been hung by the govt. Yet they refused to. Instead the moneymen of the north supported him and were accessory to his crimes.

    What happened to them by the way? Were they brougut to justice by the Fed. govt.? They knew who they were. Did they hang also? Did they rot in jail for their crimes agaisnt Virginia and the Fed. govt?

    Golry, glory, ...hallelujah!

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  5. #1095
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You have the rights that the people force the government to recognize.

    Here is a news bulletin for you: if the government of the nation says YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHTS - you don't have em. That is called reality. It trumps and kicks the ass of ideology every single time.
    I'm not sure of your point in stating this obvious fact.

    Certainly the government is powerful enough to do pretty much whatever it wants. Certainly the government CAN ignore the constitution. We all know that. Hell, the government COULD nuke New York City this afternoon.

    But we're not talking about what the government CAN do. We're talking about what the government SHOULD do. It's my contention that the government SHOULD abide by the constitution, while you apparently regard the constitution as an optional set of guidelines.

    The constitution places no restrictions on a state leaving the union, thus, per the 10th amendment, this act must be allowed. Now, as you say, the government CAN ignore what the constitution says, but that is a question of CAN, and ignores the question of SHOULD.

  6. #1096
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Again, since when did the Federal govt listen to a Southern state. They passed him off because his work met with their approval. Wise wasn't so wise concerning this.

    And what was his charge. Treason against America? ummm? Should have been shouldn't it? I mean he attacked a Federal facility.

    The point not to lose here is that the Fed. govt let Brown roam free knowing he was a murderer. Let him plot his next attack against Southernors. Brown should have already been hung by the govt. Yet they refused to. Instead the moneymen of the north supported him and were accessory to his crimes.

    What happened to them by the way? Were they brougut to justice by the Fed. govt.? They knew who they were. Did they hang also? Did they rot in jail for their crimes agaisnt Virginia and the Fed. govt?

    Golry, glory, ...hallelujah!

    Quantrill
    The charge was murder, Treason against Virginia and one other I can't recall right now. Staes Rights, right? State go first crack.


    as far as the conspirators, one went stark raving mad, and one fled to Canada. It's on the internet, you tell us. It's not hard, but I'm onmy phone now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  7. #1097
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    And this is what the South was facing. A refusal by the North of the Constitution and resorting to this 'natural or higher law'.

    Thus the South had no recourse but secede because it was not protected by the laws of the land.

    Quantrill
    Wrong.

    The South had no justification to secede because their purpose for secession - to continue slavery - went against the human rights of the slaves.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  8. #1098
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Unjustifiable, according to you. Not according to the Constitution. The seceding was done due to the norths view that the South should not be protected by that constitution.

    My natural law says a state should be able to secede when ever it wants to. It shoud be allowed that freedom. Else it is just held in slavery by the Central govt. Thats what my higher law says. What does yours say?

    Quantrill
    There is no "my" or "your" natural law. There is only the law of nature.

    And in nature no species of animal enslaves another of its own species to perform labor.

    Therefore, slavery is goes against natural law.

    And so the South had no justification for seceding because their reason to secede - to continue slavery - went against the human rights as seen by natural law of the slaves they wished to maintain.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  9. #1099
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    And yet you are impotent to point to the language in the constitution that prohibits states from leaving...



    All powers not delegated to the union nor prohibited to the states are reserved to the states or the people. You can point to no delegation. You can point to no prohibition. Therefore the power was reserved.
    "The courts have found that under the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution, federal law is superior to state law, and that under Article III of the Constitution, the federal judiciary has the final power to interpret the Constitution. Therefore, the power to make final decisions about the constitutionality of federal laws lies with the federal courts, not the states, and the states do not have the power to nullify federal laws.

    Between 1798 and the beginning of the Civil War in 1861, several states threatened or attempted nullification of various federal laws. None of these efforts were legally upheld. The Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions were rejected by the other states. The Supreme Court rejected nullification attempts in a series of decisions in the 19th century. The Civil War ended most nullification efforts...."

    Nullification (U.S. Constitution) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    As you can see the federal courts supercede the rights of the states. A state that wanted to secede would need a majority of the people from other states (2/3 of the states) to consent to it's seccession and they have never consented.
    Last edited by Moot; 05-28-12 at 06:41 PM.

  10. #1100
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The charge was murder, Treason against Virginia and one other I can't recall right now. Staes Rights, right? State go first crack.


    as far as the conspirators, one went stark raving mad, and one fled to Canada. It's on the internet, you tell us. It's not hard, but I'm onmy phone now.
    I understand, your a busy man. The information I give is not quoted but found in "Who was Who in the Civil War" by Stewart Sifakis, p. 618

    One of the secret six was George Sterns. Mass. businessman and abolitionist. Chairmen of the Mass. Committee for Kansas. He fled to Canada after it became known who the 6 were. But then returned shortly after.

    He testified before a Congressioal committee that it was among the greates events of this age. Harpers Ferry of course.

    He supported Lincoln in the electin of 1861. Wonder why? And following Lincoln's election he became the treasurer of the emancipation league which attempted to make emancipation a war measure.

    He later was given the responsibility of raising black regiments in Mass. and Tenn. for the war.

    So, we see Gearge Stearns, accessory to murder and treason against both the state of Virginia and the Fed govt. was given positions of authority.

    Quantrill
    Last edited by Quantrill; 05-28-12 at 07:01 PM.

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