View Poll Results: Texas secession?

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Thread: Texas secession?

  1. #1011
    Educator Quantrill's Avatar
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    If the government of your nation DOES NOT recognize a supposed right you claim - then YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT.
    Its a state right. Not a Federal right. The Federal govt. has no say, legally. They must resort to war.

    Quantrill

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Its a state right. Not a Federal right. The Federal govt. has no say, legally. They must resort to war.

    Quantrill
    Actually they do have a say - in this case the FINAL SAY - and they did and they proved to the states that such a claimed right did not exist.

    Hard and cold reality trumps ideology or belief every single time.
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    Educator Quantrill's Avatar
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    1) You are forgetting the illegal acquisition of property belonging to the federal government.

    2) The Southern states did not secede to engage in peace and prosperity out of the Union. Rather, they sought to engage in the inhumane exploitation of the slave population. Which is inherently violent.
    Actually there were attempts to consider payment for any Federal property that would be lost. But once the North chose war, no reason to pursue that.

    Yes, the Southern states did secede to pursue peace outside the union because their was none within the Union. When your not protected by the laws of your land, there is no peace.

    And that is just the lower Southern states. Thu upper Southern States that seceeded did so only because Lincoln wanted them to send so many men to go to war against the lower Southern States.

    Quantrill

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Actually they do have a say - in this case the FINAL SAY - and they did and they proved to the states that such a claimed right did not exist.

    Hard and cold reality trumps ideology or belief every single time.
    As I said, they can go to war over it. That doesn't mean the South was traitor to the union. It means war was the only way the Noth could settle the secission issue.

    Yes, we are a gloriouis union by bayonet only. Great memorial day thought. Glory, glory, hallelujah.

    Quantrill
    Last edited by Quantrill; 05-28-12 at 08:02 AM.

  5. #1015
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    As I said, they can go to war over it. That doesn't mean the South was traitor to the union. It means war was the only way the Noth could settle the secission issue.

    Yes, we are a gloriouis union by bayonet only. Great memorial day thought. Glory, glory, hallelujah.

    Quantrill

    Quantrill
    Reality trumps belief. If the government that rules the nation you live in DOES NOT RECOGNIZE a right you claim then you simply do not have that right. There was no right to secede from the USA because the USA did not recognize that right.

    The south attempted to destroy the USA. That is the act of a traitor pure and simple in its most stark terms.
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  6. #1016
    Educator Quantrill's Avatar
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Reality trumps belief. If the government that rules the nation you live in DOES NOT RECOGNIZE a right you claim then you simply do not have that right. There was no right to secede from the USA because the USA did not recognize that right.

    The south attempted to destroy the USA. That is the act of a traitor pure and simple in its most stark terms.
    Your totally dismissing the framing of the Cosntitution which we have already discussed. You resort to just a general statement that if the government says so, then its so. But our Government is responsible to the Constitution and ammedments. Not just because they say so.

    Quantrill

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Actually there were attempts to consider payment for any Federal property that would be lost. But once the North chose war, no reason to pursue that.

    Yes, the Southern states did secede to pursue peace outside the union because their was none within the Union. When your not protected by the laws of your land, there is no peace.

    And that is just the lower Southern states. Thu upper Southern States that seceeded did so only because Lincoln wanted them to send so many men to go to war against the lower Southern States.

    Quantrill
    And you totally ignore the inherent violence of the institution of slavery that the Southern states seceded in order to maintain their economic system.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  8. #1018
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    And you totally ignore the inherent violence of the institution of slavery that the Southern states seceded in order to maintain their economic system.
    No, I recognize the institution of slavery. I know it existed in the North and South and was slowly done away with in the North because it was no longer profitable. And then they, cough..cough, freed?, no no, sold their slaves to the South.

    And I also recognize that slavery was protected by the Constitution.

    So how do I ignore slavery? The 'violence' of slavery ? Does that somehow make you above the Constitution? Of course it does? Higher law, right?

    Quantrill

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    No, I recognize the institution of slavery. I know it existed in the North and South and was slowly done away with in the North because it was no longer profitable. And then they, cough..cough, freed?, no no, sold their slaves to the South.

    And I also recognize that slavery was protected by the Constitution.

    So how do I ignore slavery? The 'violence' of slavery ? Does that somehow make you above the Constitution? Of course it does? Higher law, right?

    Quantrill
    Yes. Because the innate human rights enshrined by natural law of those enslaved trump any social contract. Including the Constitution.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  10. #1020
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Secession was legal as has been explained. Once a state secedes it no longer answers to the former union period. And, the seceding states did not secede to wage war. They seceded to seek peace and prosperity out of the union where they were treated as unequals. The North then waged war to bring them back.
    The war started because of unprovoked Confederate attacks on Union facilities. That is an act of war.

    The radicals were in the North, and in the white house.

    No, the Southern States ratified the constitution delegating certain powers over to the Central govt. Delegated, in that they were not surrendered. They could be taken back.
    Because the South was a confederate government, not a federal government. In a federal system the central government has more power.

    The North renigged as it flouted the constitution and looked to a higher law to attack the souths slavery which was protected by the constitution.
    The South left because Republicans in Congress would have ratified to make slavery illegal.
    Last edited by MadLib; 05-28-12 at 09:14 AM.
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