View Poll Results: Texas secession?

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  • Anytime they want

    69 60.00%
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    2 1.74%
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    41 35.65%
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    3 2.61%
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Thread: Texas secession?

  1. #1001
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Where in the constitution does it give any state the right to form a new compact with other states to form a new central government that could wage war on the other states still in the union? No where that I can see. But what I can see were a handful of radicals commiting treason by trying to bust up the union and throwing a tantrum because they couldn't get their own way.

    Do you understand anything about legal contracts? Anything at all? The Southern states signed a legal contract with 36 other states and in those days a man's honor was as good as word. The contract did not give one state the right to break the agreement with all the other states without their consent or a majority vote. The South's renegging on it's contract with the other states showed that the South had no honor and couldn't be trusted to keep it's word.
    Those handful of radicals would have gotten nowhere without the support of just about the entire population. The war dragged on because there were irreconcilable differences. No contract will ever withstand one side believing its way of life is being threatened. While I don't much care about the secession itself, and wouldn't mind at all if Texas ever did, in my view the South had no honor because they used slaves. That applies as much to the 1700s too, long before secession.

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    The constitution cannot be flexible else it wouldn't be a constitution. It can be ammeded however.

    Quantrill
    Your statement here is contortion. The Constitution is flexible via your admission by amendment.

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Secession was legal as has been explained. Once a state secedes it no longer answers to the former union period. And, the seceding states did not secede to wage war. They seceded to seek peace and prosperity out of the union where they were treated as unequals. The North then waged war to bring them back.

    The radicals were in the North, and in the white house.

    No, the Southern States ratified the constitution delegating certain powers over to the Central govt. Delegated, in that they were not surrendered. They could be taken back.

    The North renigged as it flouted the constitution and looked to a higher law to attack the souths slavery which was protected by the constitution.

    Quantrill

  4. #1004
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Your statement here is contortion. The Constitution is flexible via your admission by amendment.
    Not hardly. The Constitution is not flexible. As it exists it is to be adhered to. It can be ammeded. That doesn't make it flexible. Once an ammendment is made, it must be adhered to.

    Quantrill

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Not hardly. The Constitution is not flexible. As it exists it is to be adhered to. It can be ammeded. That doesn't make it flexible. Once an ammendment is made, it must be adhered to.

    Quantrill
    The fact that it can be amended means that it is flexible.

  6. #1006
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Secession was legal as has been explained. Once a state secedes it no longer answers to the former union period. And, the seceding states did not secede to wage war. They seceded to seek peace and prosperity out of the union where they were treated as unequals. The North then waged war to bring them back.

    The radicals were in the North, and in the white house.

    No, the Southern States ratified the constitution delegating certain powers over to the Central govt. Delegated, in that they were not surrendered. They could be taken back.

    The North renigged as it flouted the constitution and looked to a higher law to attack the souths slavery which was protected by the constitution.

    Quantrill
    Rights don't exist unless they're "recognized" by someone else. Apparently, you haven't grasped that basic concept about rights yet, Quantrill.

    recognize, recognise [ˈrɛkəgˌnaɪz]

    3. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) to give formal acknowledgment of the status or legality of (a government, an accredited representative, etc.)

    5. To accept officially the national status of as a new government.


    In International Law, the term recognition refers to the formal acknowledgment by one state that another state exists as a separate and independent government. Recognition is not a mere technicality. A state has no status among nations until it is recognized by other states, in spite of the fact that it might possess all other attributes of a state, including a definable territory and population, a recognizable government, and a certain amount of continuity or stability.

    The decision to recognize a new national government is a political act that is in the discretion of the officials who are responsible for foreign policy. In the United States, the president makes the decision to recognize a country and can do so by making a formal announcement or by having another official, such as the Secretary of State, make the announcement for him. Recognition can also be informal, such as by opening negotiations with a new state or exchanging diplomats with it.

    A nation is not truly sovereign and independent unless other nations recognize its sovereignty. Formal recognition operates to assure a new state that it will be permitted to hold its place and rank as an independent political body among the nations.

    Recognition takes effect from the time it is given as if the state had always existed, and a new government can carry forward international projects initiated by the old government it replaces.

    Many difficulties come into play when a government is not recognized. For example, an unrecognized government is not entitled to participate in diplomatic negotiations or to have its laws applied in lawsuits or in jurisdictions.

    The term recognition is also used in relation to armed conflicts. If a state of belligerency is recognized, then the law of war applies with all of its protections for prisoners of war and noncombatants. Recognition of a state of belligerency ordinarily comes from an uninvolved state that declares itself neutral. A neutral country is able to recognize a state of belligerency and carry on trade and diplomatic relations with both sides of the conflict.

    recognition legal definition of recognition. recognition synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.
    The US never "recognized" the Southern states right to form a separate country.


    Here's a pop quiz question for you. Who was the first country to officially "recognize" the US as an independent sovereign nation?
    Last edited by Moot; 05-28-12 at 05:45 AM.

  7. #1007
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Rights don't exist unless they're "recognized" by someone else. Apparently, you haven't grasped that basic concept about rights yet, Quantrill.

    recognize, recognise [ˈrɛkəgˌnaɪz]

    3. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) to give formal acknowledgment of the status or legality of (a government, an accredited representative, etc.)

    5. To accept officially the national status of as a new government.




    The US never "recognized" the Southern states right to form a separate country.


    Here's a pop quiz question for you. Who was the first country to officially "recognize" the US as an independent sovereign nation?
    The right of secession was known and accepted at the time of the making of the 1787 Constitution. It was even stated in several of the States ratification documents. Just because the Federal govt. doesn't want it, like it, recognize it, is immaterial. It just means the Fed. govt. is willing to go to war to stop it.

    I give. Who?

    Quantrill

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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    The fact that it can be amended means that it is flexible.
    Does that flexibility mean it can be disobeyed?

    Quantrill

  9. #1009
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    The right of secession was known and accepted at the time of the making of the 1787 Constitution. It was even stated in several of the States ratification documents. Just because the Federal govt. doesn't want it, like it, recognize it, is immaterial. It just means the Fed. govt. is willing to go to war to stop it.

    I give. Who?

    Quantrill
    If the government of your nation DOES NOT recognize a supposed right you claim - then YOU DO NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT.
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    Re: Texas secession?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantrill View Post
    Secession was legal as has been explained. Once a state secedes it no longer answers to the former union period. And, the seceding states did not secede to wage war. They seceded to seek peace and prosperity out of the union where they were treated as unequals. The North then waged war to bring them back.

    The radicals were in the North, and in the white house.

    No, the Southern States ratified the constitution delegating certain powers over to the Central govt. Delegated, in that they were not surrendered. They could be taken back.

    The North renigged as it flouted the constitution and looked to a higher law to attack the souths slavery which was protected by the constitution.

    Quantrill
    1) You are forgetting the illegal acquisition of property belonging to the federal government.

    2) The Southern states did not secede to engage in peace and prosperity out of the Union. Rather, they sought to engage in the inhumane exploitation of the slave population. Which is inherently violent.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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