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Thread: For Obama voters only!

  1. #131
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    Re: For Obama voters only!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mlinsenbigler View Post
    I didn't suggest you call out a none existent president. But you can call out the Senate Rs for, very literally, stopping Congress from doing their job ( Its not Obama in there using the filibuster ). I would have to apologize to you in advance because I know your not going to like what I say, but the Ds are doing a damn good job taking into consideration their working with a party whos leaders have said that their job is to make Obama a one term president. And I don't know why you think Pres. Obama hasn't been called out, just Youtube or Google "obama called out" he gets it from both sides. The reason things aren't getting done in the Senate or the House is because of the Senate and the House, not the president. His job is not to baby sit the Congress; its to protect our country. He's killed more AQ leadership in his first three and a half years than Bush did in his eight. His leadership in Libya helped lead to the ultimate death of Khadaffy, a man who killed American citizens. He has ended a combat role in Iraq, and has drawn out a very specific deadline in Afghanistan. Don't forget, he ordered the killing of OBL. On the domestic front he has taken us out of recession and consistently added jobs to the work force. Lowered taxes to the lowest rate since 1950 ( which I don't like, but shows he is willing to compromise with the other party )... He is a great president, and we would like your support this upcoming election cycle. Look at the other guy, do you really think he could do a better job? I mean, just because he is rich doesn't mean he has a magic wond that creates jobs.
    You're going to have to wait until the weekend for me to respond to this because I just don't have the hour to dedicate to it right now. Believe you me, I will though.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  2. #132
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    Re: For Obama voters only!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mlinsenbigler View Post
    .....if we are just going to go ahead and add another 1.5 trillion dollar to the debt because Congressional Rs. want to give a huge tax break to the WEALTHIEST people in our society (Bush/Obama tax cuts).
    Oh the irony. It's Congressional R's fault for the Bush/OBAMA tax cuts when A) The Senate where Dem controlled when it was originally passed and B) The Senate is still Dem controlled C) The tax cuts were passed by the Dem controlled House and Senate in 2010.
    Also, don't act like those tax cuts don't effect anyone other than the rich. They effect everyone and you know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mlinsenbigler View Post
    And we can't only look at cuts to solve the problems we are facing. I mean look at Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, they all cut, cut, cut their governments and now they are on their way to bring down the Euro-zone. They needed to, and we need to, stimulate the economy, consolidate government programs, and like you said cut the wasteful spending. But the beef I have is that one side (Rs) won't even acknowledge the only way we are going to close the gap in the deficit and ultimately lower the national debt is by increasing taxes.
    The fact of the matter is, you don't raise taxes when the gov't is spending millions on researching shrimp running on treadmills and funding Pakistani Sesame Street. By your account, we should raise taxes so we can fund more programs like these. When our gov't actually makes some real cuts, cuts to stupid programs like those, then we can talk about taxes.
    The reason the Euro austerity isn't working is because it was done irresponsibly. They cut huge portions of their gov't virtually overnight. No one is saying that should happen. However, cuts should be made in a slow and responsible manner. I agree that we can't just cut people off from money they depend on ie welfare, Medicaid/care, etc. Those programs need to be reformed, the reforms need to be instituted over a period of time, and a "grandfathering" agreement should be put into play for a certain age.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mlinsenbigler View Post
    We have three different branches of government, all with a specific job, the Pres. does not run the Senate, he is not the boss of Reid or Boehner. All and all I think the Pres. is a civil person, even when he is criticizing someone, not like most R's who call his a "Liar" or "the most Leftist president in US history" or insist that "Pres. Obama is wants the economy to fail". The Presidents constitutional responsibilities are as commander-and-chief of the US Military to over see foreign policy, not economic policy. The Congress is responsible for the problems pertaining to our fiscal policies and our overall economy. And even so, the Senate Ds wouldn't be able to pass a budget when the Rs would just filibuster because they don't want history to show that when Ds were running things they got stuff done. I probably couldn't find a quote of Pres. Obama criticizing Reid, could you find a quote of Boehner criticizing, McConnoll for leading the Senate in filibuster history, probably not because those (both Rs and Ds) bastards kiss each others arses.
    The POTUS is responsible for economic policy because he has to approve of policy passed, does he not? In addition, the excuse you give the Senate is a cop out. Why do we pay our Senators if they can just throw their hands up and say screw it when they can't come to an agreement? Harry Reid is the Senate Majority leader. As such, he should lead the Senate to a budget, simple as that. The POTUS, instead of focusing on bickering through the media with Boehner, should apply pressure to the Senate to DO THEIR JOB that they are obligated to do BY LAW. I don't understand why our President feels like he can address Trayvon Martin, the NCAA basketball tourney, or the Kardashians marriage arrangements but not his Senate failing to do their job for 3 straight years. He is the leader of the country. As such, he should lead by addressing the issue with the Senate.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  3. #133
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    Re: For Obama voters only!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I don't understand why our President feels like he can address Trayvon Martin, the NCAA basketball tourney, or the Kardashians marriage arrangements but not his Senate failing to do their job for 3 straight years. He is the leader of the country. As such, he should lead by addressing the issue with the Senate.
    You mean how a previous president got involved in case about a woman in a coma???
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  4. #134
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    Re: For Obama voters only!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Oh the irony. It's Congressional R's fault for the Bush/OBAMA tax cuts when A) The Senate where Dem controlled when it was originally passed and B) The Senate is still Dem controlled C) The tax cuts were passed by the Dem controlled House and Senate in 2010.
    Also, don't act like those tax cuts don't effect anyone other than the rich. They effect everyone and you know it.
    Yes it is the Rs fault for the Bush/Obama tax cuts. Before Obama repassed them the were called the Bush tax cuts for a reason, Bush and Rs drafted them. I put fault on Obama for repassing them, don't think i'm some partisan trying to defend that, I'm just defending the fact he doesn't run the Senate. And they do effect everyone, the rich get tax breaks and the poor feel the cuts in all the social program cuts.


    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The fact of the matter is, you don't raise taxes when the gov't is spending millions on researching shrimp running on treadmills and funding Pakistani Sesame Street. By your account, we should raise taxes so we can fund more programs like these. When our gov't actually makes some real cuts, cuts to stupid programs like those, then we can talk about taxes.
    I agree, wasteful spend needs to be addressed, but I don't hold Pres Obama accountable for what should be a discussion that should be happening in Congress. But the fact is, if your trying to address the debt and deficit, your going to need to raise taxes. You can't close the gap in the budget deficit by not cutting wasteful spending and not collecting taxes, and can't reduce the national debt unless the economy is doing good. The way you get the economy to prosper is by having more people buying and selling goods and services, the way the government can promote the buying and selling of goods and services is to make sure it is funding programs like food stamps, unemployment, and job retraining and not cutting funding for all these programs. (which Congressional Rs have repeatedly proposed in many different pieces of legislation )

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The reason the Euro austerity isn't working is because it was done irresponsibly. They cut huge portions of their gov't virtually overnight. No one is saying that should happen. However, cuts should be made in a slow and responsible manner. I agree that we can't just cut people off from money they depend on ie welfare, Medicaid/care, etc. Those programs need to be reformed, the reforms need to be instituted over a period of time, and a "grandfathering" agreement should be put into play for a certain age.
    The Rs might not be purposing to cut all government spending overnight, but they have made a pledge to Grover Norquest to not increase tax revenue one cent. They want to cut everything and more but can't raise taxes even when taxes are at a 60 year low. 60YEAR LOW. The rich are doing the best they ever had, meaning they have never been richer. It seems to me that we agree about what should be happening we are just in disagreement on who to hold accountable for why it's not happeneing. Respectfully I disagree with you, you can not hold the president accountable for what the congress is or is not doing..... breaking news, spending is lower dollar for dollar under Obama than the last five presidents....


    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The POTUS is responsible for economic policy because he has to approve of policy passed, does he not? In addition, the excuse you give the Senate is a cop out. Why do we pay our Senators if they can just throw their hands up and say screw it when they can't come to an agreement? Harry Reid is the Senate Majority leader. As such, he should lead the Senate to a budget, simple as that. The POTUS, instead of focusing on bickering through the media with Boehner, should apply pressure to the Senate to DO THEIR JOB that they are obligated to do BY LAW. I don't understand why our President feels like he can address Trayvon Martin, the NCAA basketball tourney, or the Kardashians marriage arrangements but not his Senate failing to do their job for 3 straight years. He is the leader of the country. As such, he should lead by addressing the issue with the Senate.
    He has veto power yes, but he does not write legislation. It's not a cop out if it's true. very basic. There are 57 Ds, 40 Rs, 2 Is (cacuse with Ds) one empty seat because Sen. Kennedy died. lets just say 60 Ds 40 Rs. In order to pass legislation under the filibuster you need 2/3 votes. 2/3 or 100 is 66.6 lets say 66 to round down, guess what the Ds don't have 66 to break a filibuster to do their jobs. why because Senate Rs are filibustering. Heres a graph hope it can paint a better picture than I can. Google Image Result for http://www.discourseanddiatribe.com/filibuster_files/image002.gif

  5. #135
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    Re: For Obama voters only!

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You mean how a previous president got involved in case about a woman in a coma???
    And that has what to do with the current subject?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  6. #136
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    Re: For Obama voters only!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mlinsenbigler View Post
    Yes it is the Rs fault for the Bush/Obama tax cuts. Before Obama repassed them the were called the Bush tax cuts for a reason, Bush and Rs drafted them. I put fault on Obama for repassing them, don't think i'm some partisan trying to defend that, I'm just defending the fact he doesn't run the Senate. And they do effect everyone, the rich get tax breaks and the poor feel the cuts in all the social program cuts.


    I agree, wasteful spend needs to be addressed, but I don't hold Pres Obama accountable for what should be a discussion that should be happening in Congress. But the fact is, if your trying to address the debt and deficit, your going to need to raise taxes. You can't close the gap in the budget deficit by not cutting wasteful spending and not collecting taxes, and can't reduce the national debt unless the economy is doing good. The way you get the economy to prosper is by having more people buying and selling goods and services, the way the government can promote the buying and selling of goods and services is to make sure it is funding programs like food stamps, unemployment, and job retraining and not cutting funding for all these programs. (which Congressional Rs have repeatedly proposed in many different pieces of legislation )


    The Rs might not be purposing to cut all government spending overnight, but they have made a pledge to Grover Norquest to not increase tax revenue one cent. They want to cut everything and more but can't raise taxes even when taxes are at a 60 year low. 60YEAR LOW. The rich are doing the best they ever had, meaning they have never been richer. It seems to me that we agree about what should be happening we are just in disagreement on who to hold accountable for why it's not happeneing. Respectfully I disagree with you, you can not hold the president accountable for what the congress is or is not doing..... breaking news, spending is lower dollar for dollar under Obama than the last five presidents....




    He has veto power yes, but he does not write legislation. It's not a cop out if it's true. very basic. There are 57 Ds, 40 Rs, 2 Is (cacuse with Ds) one empty seat because Sen. Kennedy died. lets just say 60 Ds 40 Rs. In order to pass legislation under the filibuster you need 2/3 votes. 2/3 or 100 is 66.6 lets say 66 to round down, guess what the Ds don't have 66 to break a filibuster to do their jobs. why because Senate Rs are filibustering. Heres a graph hope it can paint a better picture than I can. Google Image Result for http://www.discourseanddiatribe.com/filibuster_files/image002.gif
    I will respond to your entire post with this.
    1) Senate: President Obama is not the leader of the Senate, I agree. But, he's not the leader of the House either. So why do you think he feels the need to address issues with the House but not the Senate? I believe it's because his party controls the Senate and it would require him to call out a fellow Dem to do that.
    2) Taxes: Your statements on taxes show the exact socialist like mentality that President Obama possesses. You statement was [I]"You can't close the gap in the budget deficit by not cutting wasteful spending and not collecting taxes" [/I]"the way the government can promote the buying and selling of goods and services is to make sure it is funding programs like food stamps, unemployment, and job retraining and not cutting funding for all these programs" I have a few issues with this. A) The gov't should not be into market dictation. Which is what this is. B) By your logic, we should take money from the middle to upper class to give to the lower class. Who do you think is more likely to invest their money, the lower class or the other two? The lower class is worried about paying the electric bill. The other two classes take the additional income from tax breaks and use it on the market. I don't believe in putting people in a ditch, but a I also don't agree with paying people a year of unemployment when I'm driving by a McDonalds with help wanted signs out. C) The rich are doing well, as good as they ever have. However, when the rich do well, what does the gov't get more of? Taxes. Thats how it works.
    3)Spending: "breaking news, spending is lower dollar for dollar under Obama than the last five presidents...." Let's see proof of that.
    4)Filibusters: The reason Dems were kicked out of the House and Senate is because spending was out of control. The graph below shows that. The people that replaced them, Tea Party types, were put there to stop spending. That is what they have done. The people spoke and got what they wanted. Just because it's not what you want doesn't mean that it's not what others wanted.
    For Obama voters only!-untitled-jpg
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  7. #137
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    Re: For Obama voters only!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    And that has what to do with the current subject?
    You're the one that introduced the idea of stupid things presidents do, not me. You listed a couple and I added one more.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-23-12 at 02:14 PM.
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  8. #138
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    Re: For Obama voters only!

    He should be a shoe-in. I've got no idea what the GOP's strategy for this upcoming election is, I'm pretty sure they, themselves, have no idea. The GOP keeps pushing further to the right, when they need to lean to the center to attract the undecided, independents, and moderates.
    I use a lot of satire and sarcasm so keep that in mind when reading my posts.

  9. #139
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    Re: For Obama voters only!

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You're the one that introduced the idea of stupid things presidents do, not me. You listed a couple and I added one more.
    I introduced stupid things the current POTUS is doing. You brought up things the POTUS prior to him did, there by introducing the typical strawman when a criticism of President Obama is introduced.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  10. #140
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    Re: For Obama voters only!

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I introduced stupid things the current POTUS is doing. You brought up things the POTUS prior to him did, there by introducing the typical strawman when a criticism of President Obama is introduced.
    It's not a strawman if it shows that it's common practice among presidents to do this kind of thing. If you bitched about Obama taking a vacation I would also point to other presidents taking vacations. It's typical behavior for any president to do these things and unworthy of any special attention in debate.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-24-12 at 01:15 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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