View Poll Results: Which candidate will create equality?

Voters
27. You may not vote on this poll
  • Candidate 1 (civil unions)

    1 3.70%
  • Candidate 2 (government redefinition of marriage to include gay marriage)

    6 22.22%
  • Candidate 3 (government defined marriage'j as one man, one woman)

    5 18.52%
  • Candidate 4 (get government out of marriage)

    15 55.56%
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Thread: True equality

  1. #11
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    Re: True equality

    Government will never be out of marriage.........They have a stake in it...That is to have a man and woman married for the sake of any children that may come from it...........In black society 3 ot of 5 children are born out of wedlock...Chidren born out of wedlock don't have that father to influence them.......That is why crime is so hig in the black neighborhood.
    Last edited by Navy Pride; 05-11-12 at 01:13 AM.
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  2. #12
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    Re: True equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Government will never be out of marriage.........They have a stake in it...That is to have a man and woman married for the sake of any children that may come from it...........In black society 3 ot of 5 children are born out of wedlock...Chidren born out of wedlock don't have that father to influence them.......That is why crime is so hig in the black neighborhood.
    I don't know why I am surprized, but seeing Navy's bigotry and racism in the same post is still disturbing.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  3. #13
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    Re: True equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    How does that even address anything I said? I don't care.

    That is not even important.

    So what? Why does this even matter?

    I still don't see a problem. You are basically just asking the government to bail you out because of troubles you don't want to go through. Government is not there for such purposes. That is where you come in. Sorry, but your bull**** is extremely thick.
    The government is already involved with marriage and families.

    There is no asking the government for anything here because they already realize that it is important to make people happy and recognizing family legally, with having certain rights and responsibilities, benefits both the people and the government. It means less lawsuits and litigation by the truck loads in trying to decide who has what responsibility and who gets to make what decisions for whom. It means less the government has to take responsibility for when it comes to medical/end-of-life decisions for people, including the financial responsibility for any of those decisions. It also means that the government is able to hold people responsible for at least some financial responsibility for other people. You don't think the government really wants to go through the trouble of figuring out what to do with someone who has died and without legal family or someone who is willing to take responsibility, particularly financial responsibility, it is left up to the government to deal with those situations. Likely there would be many such things without some legal recognition of family.

    There are tons of issues that are easily solved by just having the government legally recognize family members, and that includes legal recognition of a spouse. It is good for each individual, but it is also good for society as a whole, and very likely in the long run saves a crapload of money that the government would have to shell out for all kinds of things.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #14
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    Re: True equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    I really don't understand why more people don't advocate removing government from marriage altogether. From a government stand point it is an antiquated practice. Since people have kids out of wedlock these days like it's nothing what's the point of a marriage license? To keep people from marrying their cousin? Why? they can screw anyway and make babies.
    The other problem I have is people that will scream separation of church and state to justify not outlawing SS marriages BUT have no problem with most marriages being performed by a member of clergy and accepted by the state. Hello....
    Marriage gives special rights to a couple under State and Federal law, that's why it is regulated by Govt.. Are you in favor of everyone giving up those rights?

  5. #15
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    Re: True equality

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Marriage gives special rights to a couple under State and Federal law, that's why it is regulated by Govt.. Are you in favor of everyone giving up those rights?
    They can give all the rights of marriage to any couple without marriage...shared benefits, insurance...SS and Medicare...legal rights, decision making...everything like marriage without changing marriage itself

  6. #16
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    Re: True equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The only way to create equality in marriage is to eliminate government from marriage and stop fighting over who gets special benefits for being in a relationship.

    And yes get rid of the legal drink age law. No one follows it so all it does is make people feel good that want to feel like they support something that people should follow. They can do that by supporting it and it not being a law all the same.
    Get rid of "age of consent", too. Preteens and teens are perfectly capable of making up their own minds.

  7. #17
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    Re: True equality

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The government is already involved with marriage and families.

    There is no asking the government for anything here because they already realize that it is important to make people happy and recognizing family legally, with having certain rights and responsibilities, benefits both the people and the government
    Special Benefits usually assist people and government. I don't think that is shocking anyone here.

    It means less lawsuits and litigation by the truck loads in trying to decide who has what responsibility and who gets to make what decisions for whom.
    Those are private decisions and if people that people are supposed to handle like grown ass adults. There should be no legal recourse if people can't manage this on their own and there is no good reason for their to be.

    It means less the government has to take responsibility for when it comes to medical/end-of-life decisions for people, including the financial responsibility for any of those decisions.
    The government doesn't have responsibility in those fields to begin with and getting the government out of relationship includes this entire area.. You are doing nothing but framing the question around your belief system here. Its called a fallacy and you are in one right now.

    It also means that the government is able to hold people responsible for at least some financial responsibility for other people.
    So people and government are gaining power here to strip other people of their rights. Or are you saying that people are naturally responsible for other people in a fallacy called the social contract and there is no sort of right violation at all happening because of this power?

    You don't think the government really wants to go through the trouble of figuring out what to do with someone who has died and without legal family or someone who is willing to take responsibility, particularly financial responsibility, it is left up to the government to deal with those situations.
    They don't need to figure anything out and getting rid of the governments power in such matters is part of getting them out of relationships. That is where personal responsibility come in. If people can't handle this world for what it is they better grow up.

  8. #18
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    Re: True equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Government will never be out of marriage.........They have a stake in it...That is to have a man and woman married for the sake of any children that may come from it...........In black society 3 ot of 5 children are born out of wedlock...Chidren born out of wedlock don't have that father to influence them.......That is why crime is so hig in the black neighborhood.

  9. #19
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    Re: True equality

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Those are private decisions and if people that people are supposed to handle like grown ass adults. There should be no legal recourse if people can't manage this on their own and there is no good reason for their to be.
    You seem to be missing the fact that without legal recognition of family, then you also have no legal recognition of children either. Children are part of a person's family. Anyone can claim any children they want because no one recognizes family, legally anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The government doesn't have responsibility in those fields to begin with and getting the government out of relationship includes this entire area.. You are doing nothing but framing the question around your belief system here. Its called a fallacy and you are in one right now.
    The government has responsibility in protecting people in many ways that are simply subtle and benign. Requires very little actual written laws to accomplish unless people like you try to step in and decide that people are getting "special rights" through simple legal family recognition.

    Plus, the government does have responsibility in ensuring that people have their remains properly taken care of, in some way, if there is no one else to do so. Who has legal responsibility if there is no legal recognition of family for taking on the financial responsibility for those who die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So people and government are gaining power here to strip other people of their rights. Or are you saying that people are naturally responsible for other people in a fallacy called the social contract and there is no sort of right violation at all happening because of this power?
    What rights are anyone losing by legal recognition of family? Give me an example here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They don't need to figure anything out and getting rid of the governments power in such matters is part of getting them out of relationships. That is where personal responsibility come in. If people can't handle this world for what it is they better grow up.
    You seem to think that the marriage license is more than just a contract between people making them family. It really isn't. The benefits come from the benefit to the government and society in people agreeing to make a commitment that requires a bit more to get out of than simply being together in a relationship with no such legal agreements.

    You seem to forget that the government is in charge of the court system. Without legal recognition of family in our laws, we would have many cases completely overloading our courts dealing with who gets rights and inheritances, who is responsible for children and who the children actually in the custody of, who is responsible for financial debts owed by those who die or who are incapacitated, who can have access to military bases on the basis of dependency and live in military housing as a dependent. There are so many more that would cause major issues without legal recognition of family.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #20
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    Re: True equality

    I believe it's important for gays to enjoy the same rights as straight people. I'm not so concerned about the term that's used to describe the process. So as far as I'm concerned, options 1, 2, and 4 in the poll would all create equality.

    My favored solution to the gay marriage issue would be to get government out of 'marriage' altogether. Let marriage remain the ceremonial/religious aspects of it and government would have nothing to do with that part. Give any adult couple a license for domestic partnership or civil union or whatever you want to call it, and those give all the rights that 'marriage' does now (joint custody of children, using each others' insurance, next of kin, can make medical decisions, etc.)

    My second choice would be to let the states decide themselves, but the federal government require that states recognize legal marriages performed in another state.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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