View Poll Results: Are you pro life or pro choice

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  • Pro Life

    22 31.88%
  • Pro Choice

    47 68.12%
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Thread: Are you pro life or pro choice

  1. #81
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    As the fetus gets closer and closer to life then I believe that it becomes more and more morally objectionable to killing it.
    So you recognize that the fetus in some fashion is a life or approaching being a life, and is worthy of moral "weight" to be placed on it, however you make a subjective decision personally in terms of when you believe its worthy of weight and when it's not? Yes? Again, just you personally.

    So here's my question. What if you hypothetically, PERSONALLY, felt the fetus had the moral "weight" of any other human life by that second trimester. Do you believe you would as easily think that it is not your place to push for action to protect what you assign such "weight to"? Not even saying WOULD you think that, but would it be a bit harder to make that decision.

    You're not really that different than a pro-lifer, despite the way your guilty consious squirms and dances to where you have to complain about explaining yourself "Ad naseum" when in rality you talked in vagueries repeatedly until you finally gave a smattering of truth in your post that the reason you assign it some mortal weight is because it is related in some way to a human life. The only difference between You and a Pro-lifer is not simply the belief of whether or not ones beliefs should be imposed on others...the difference is in how much moral worth you place on the fetus's life. You place enough to where on a personal level, for your own soul or mind or heart or consious, you would suggest people shouldn't do it but you don't put enough on it to where you can't justify suggesting that the state has an necessary interest to act. The only real difference is that pro-lifer's put enough moral weight on it to consider it worthy of protection, they put moral weight on it similar to that as a child, and as such refusing to compell the state to take action in such a case would be tantamount to refusing to compell the state to take action from a mother killing her infant, because in both cases the person sincerely believes morally in their hearts that the fetus has the same moral weight as any other child.

    Now you can disagree with them, you can argue with them, you can find their arguments hollow. But to be frank, it's ridiculous and to me hypocritical when you insult and belittle them for their views because they are not much different in you in thinking and are seeking to act no less morally than you. They simply place a different subjective worth on the child than you do...and yours is no more correct or legitimate in the grand scheme of things then theirs.

  2. #82
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Pro-fetal-rights and anti-fetal-rights are the best labels for most people.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  3. #83
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So you recognize that the fetus in some fashion is a life or approaching being a life, and is worthy of moral "weight" to be placed on it, however you make a subjective decision personally in terms of when you believe its worthy of weight and when it's not? Yes? Again, just you personally.

    So here's my question. What if you hypothetically, PERSONALLY, felt the fetus had the moral "weight" of any other human life by that second trimester. Do you believe you would as easily think that it is not your place to push for action to protect what you assign such "weight to"? Not even saying WOULD you think that, but would it be a bit harder to make that decision.

    You're not really that different than a pro-lifer, despite the way your guilty consious squirms and dances to where you have to complain about explaining yourself "Ad naseum" when in rality you talked in vagueries repeatedly until you finally gave a smattering of truth in your post that the reason you assign it some mortal weight is because it is related in some way to a human life. The only difference between You and a Pro-lifer is not simply the belief of whether or not ones beliefs should be imposed on others...the difference is in how much moral worth you place on the fetus's life. You place enough to where on a personal level, for your own soul or mind or heart or consious, you would suggest people shouldn't do it but you don't put enough on it to where you can't justify suggesting that the state has an necessary interest to act. The only real difference is that pro-lifer's put enough moral weight on it to consider it worthy of protection, they put moral weight on it similar to that as a child, and as such refusing to compell the state to take action in such a case would be tantamount to refusing to compell the state to take action from a mother killing her infant, because in both cases the person sincerely believes morally in their hearts that the fetus has the same moral weight as any other child.

    Now you can disagree with them, you can argue with them, you can find their arguments hollow. But to be frank, it's ridiculous and to me hypocritical when you insult and belittle them for their views because they are not much different in you in thinking and are seeking to act no less morally than you. They simply place a different subjective worth on the child than you do...and yours is no more correct or legitimate in the grand scheme of things then theirs.
    No. Not at all. The pro-life side believes that they and the government are in a better position than the woman and her doctor in making the decision. I believe that despite my personal views, the woman and her doctor are in a better position. Believe it or not. One can be morally opposed to abortion and pro-choice, whether you want to accept that or not.
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  4. #84
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    No. Not at all. The pro-life side believes that they and the government are in a better position than the woman and her doctor in making the decision.
    Again, no they don't. This just isn't true. Show me anything that depicts that this is the majority opinion of why Pro-Life individuals believe abortion should not be legal in most cases rather than because they believe the fetus is a child and as such it is the duty of the state to protect it from being killed.

    You're taking your own bigoted and biased view of the carictature stereotype of a Pro-Lifer you have conjured in your head, placing your own view of what they must "really" think as if you are a great and mighty psychic that knows the truth, and then proceeding to then argue that as if it is the truth amongst the majority of those on that side of the argument.

    I can truthfully say that, save for perhaps 1% of the pro-lifers I've ever discussed this with or seen talking about it, that I've not seen them suggest that the reason abortoins should be illegal is because the government and themselves are in a better position to make a medical decision.

    I believe that despite my personal views, the woman and her doctor are in a better position. Believe it or not. One can be morally opposed to abortion and pro-choice, whether you want to accept that or not.
    Jesus, you're so guilt ridden and paranoid about this you can't even let yourself read what people are saying.

    I completely accepted your moral stance on it. I never stated any issue on your moral stance. I fully acknowledged yours is a legitimate moral stance to have. Indeed, my own moral stance is somewhere between your own and a typical pro-lifer. You are so absolutely prejudiced and bigoted towards anyone and everyone who dares to disagree with you on such an issue as this that you latch onto overwaught, ridiculous stereotypes and apply them ignorantly and with great biased upon people. You treat pro-liferes no different then racists treat black people and do so based on an extremely similar mindset and mentality. You can be morally opposed to abortion and be pro-choice...my point was that one must only go a few steps past your own moral grounds to reach a point where it is no longer "approaching" a life but IS a life which leads to all sorts of different moral questions one must ask themselves. I am not suggesting that you can't be morally opposed to abortion and pro-choice, I am suggesting that your moral opposition and your stance on it is not the only legitimate and reasonable approach or stance to have on the issue.

  5. #85
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Pro-fetal-rights and anti-fetal-rights are the best labels for most people.
    ....

    Ho-Lee-****

    That is the best short hand, to the point, good description, not slanted either way, descrpition I've ever seen. WOW well done. Especially highlighted on the notion that it seems a majority of traditionally pro-choicers see it as "Fetus != child" while pro-lifers see it as "Fetus = Child"

  6. #86
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    No opinion is an in between or both choice. Having a different view federally than you do locally is an in-between or both choice.
    Only a ****en moron says it should be left up to the states because of the simple fact someone can take their happy ass to the next state and getting an abortion thus defeating the purpose of making abortion illegal in your own state. I never understood why some people calling themselves pro-life would take such an idiotic position on something they believe is murder or should be legally defined as murder. Nobody says oh I think murder,child molestation, rape or some other vile crime should be left up to the states to decide whether or not they want those things to be illegal. If someone truly believes abortion is murder or should be considered murder then no one in their right mind who is actually against abortion is going to want the states to decide whether or not it should be legal or illegal.


    Just because you have difficulty envisioning that others can have complex thoughts on the issue, doesn't mean everyone sees the issue in the very simple black and white way that you do
    .
    In the abortion issue the terms pro-choice and pro-life are black and white issues.One if for abortion being legal and the other is for abortion being illegal.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 05-10-12 at 06:45 PM.
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  7. #87
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Pro-Choice and Anti-Choice are the most appropriate labels of any.
    Except, I'm probably more in favor of freedom of choice than you... unfortunately, freedom of choice doesn't justify or really have much to do with homicide... Not every choice should be legal.

  8. #88
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I disagree. I think the labels are quite accurate and do not particularly favor one side unfairly. The issue is abortion, not a parent killing a 3 year old.

    You either agree that the woman should have a choice to have an abortion or not. Its quite simple.

    You are either FOR that choice (Pro) or against that choice (Anti).
    But it's not because you're still using propaganda as you haven't limited the "choice" to only abortion. As such to use your convention it would be pro-allowing-elective-abortion and anti-allowing-elective-abortion.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  9. #89
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Pro-fetal-rights and anti-fetal-rights are the best labels for most people.
    Except it has nothing to do with fetal rights and everything to do with a woman's reproductive rights.
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Except it has nothing to do with fetal rights and everything to do with a woman's reproductive rights.
    That's entirely dependent upon which side of the fence you're on.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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