View Poll Results: Are you pro life or pro choice

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  • Pro Life

    22 31.88%
  • Pro Choice

    47 68.12%
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Thread: Are you pro life or pro choice

  1. #151
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Why are there only two choices?

    As if the issue were that simple.

    Maybe that's the problem with many issues, too many simpleminded people on both sides have the microphone.

  2. #152
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Human being and person have sociological-philosophical-spiritual connotations, and thus there is debate about the application of these terms to prenatals and, historically, to some postnatals, too.

    But that's all aside from hard-science.

    When it comes to hard-science, when it comes to taxonomy, phylogeny, anthropology, biology, genetics-DNA, organism-life, all of these scientific discplines are in complete concensus agreement and they have been for over 35 years: a prenatal, a ZEF (zygote/embryo/fetus), is an organism, completely alive, of the human species, a living human.

    That's the same thing we postnatals are: an organism, completely alive, of the human species, a living human.

    And that makes sense.

    A day before we're born, are we that much different, hard-science designation-wise? Of course not. We're still an organism, completely alive, of the human species, a living human.

    We may not be a human being to some, or a person, but these aren't exclusively hard-science terms.

    And no matter how far back you want to go in gestation to debate the developmental qualifications for the human being or person status of a prenatal, there simply is no hard-science debate about the reality that a prenatal at any stage of development -- zygote, embryo, fetus -- is a living human, the same designation a postal is given by hard-science: a living human.

    As the previous poster said, "What, only two choices?"

    Indeed, I've seen some pretty amusing arguments both pro-choice and pro-life, and I simply can't identify with some of the denials and exaggerations that come from these two ldeologically extremely polarized camps.

    Yes, it seems like the pro-choice camp goes to some pretty laughably bizarre extremes of sophistry to deny the living human reality of prenatals, and the pro-life camp goes to some rather wild exaggerations of development terms to make a prenatal a lot more than it is.

    But I guess after so many years of intense emotional debate, they've both been pushed to the extremities of irrationalism on the matter, to where neither is really in possession of the foundational truth.

    I feel fortunate to not be caught in that dualistic paradigm.

    So where does that put someone who recognizes a prenatal is a living human just like a postanal is a living human, realizes that until we can reduce the number of unplanned/undesired conceptions that abortion will happen, doesn't want to see women butchered in back-alley abortions, doesn't want to see viable humans butchered either, supports Roe v. Wade and Webster v. Reproductive Health Services as the best law we've got in the matter for so many reasons, doesn't want to see women suffer degrees of post-abortion adverse side-effects both psychologically and physiologically, wants hi-tech conception prevention "pills" in everyone's hands to super drastically reduce abortion to the degree of rarity to thus spare nearly all prenatal humans from premature death, and wants both sides to come to their senses, accept the foundational truths of the matter, and realize the current law and high-tech conception prevention pills are the only real solution to the abortion conflict?

    As usual, there is no ideological label for such a position on this issue, or maybe any issue, in the wide expanse of territory in the center apart from either of the ideological wing positions.

    But nameless or not, that's still the position on the matter that makes the best sense to me.
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  3. #153
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Human being and person have sociological-philosophical-spiritual connotations, and thus there is debate about the application of these terms to prenatals and, historically, to some postnatals, too.

    But that's all aside from hard-science.

    When it comes to hard-science, when it comes to taxonomy, phylogeny, anthropology, biology, genetics-DNA, organism-life, all of these scientific discplines are in complete concensus agreement and they have been for over 35 years: a prenatal, a ZEF (zygote/embryo/fetus), is an organism, completely alive, of the human species, a living human.

    That's the same thing we postnatals are: an organism, completely alive, of the human species, a living human.

    And that makes sense.

    A day before we're born, are we that much different, hard-science designation-wise? Of course not. We're still an organism, completely alive, of the human species, a living human.

    We may not be a human being to some, or a person, but these aren't exclusively hard-science terms.

    And no matter how far back you want to go in gestation to debate the developmental qualifications for the human being or person status of a prenatal, there simply is no hard-science debate about the reality that a prenatal at any stage of development -- zygote, embryo, fetus -- is a living human, the same designation a postnatal is given by hard-science: a living human.

    As the previous poster said, "Why are there only two choices?"

    Indeed, I've seen some pretty amusing arguments both pro-choice and pro-life, and I simply can't identify with the denials and exaggerations that come from these two ldeologically extremely polarized camps.

    Yes, it seems like the pro-choice camp goes to some pretty laughably bizarre extremes of sophistry to deny the living human reality of prenatals, and the pro-life camp goes to some rather wild exaggerations of development terms to make a prenatal a lot more than it is.

    But I guess after so many years of intense emotional debate, they've both been pushed to the extremities of irrationalism on the matter, to where neither is really in possession of the foundational truth.

    I feel fortunate not to be caught in that mind-dumbing dualistic paradigm.

    So where does that put someone who recognizes a prenatal is a living human just like a postnatal is a living human, realizes that until we can drastically reduce the number of unplanned/undesired conceptions that abortion will happen in sadly great numbers, doesn't want to see women butchered in back-alley abortions, doesn't want to see viable humans butchered either, supports Roe v. Wade and Webster v. Reproductive Health Services as the best law we've got in the matter for so many reasons, doesn't want to see women suffer degrees of post-abortion adverse side-effects both psychologically and physiologically, wants hi-tech conception prevention "pills" in everyone's hands to super drastically reduce abortion to the degree of rarity to thus spare nearly all prenatal humans from premature death and women from the adversities of abortion, and wants both sides to come to their senses, accept the foundational truths of the matter, and realize the current law and high-tech conception prevention pills are the only real solution to the abortion conflict?

    As usual, there is no ideological label for such a position on this issue, or maybe any issue, in the wide expanse of territory in the center apart from either of the ideological wing positions.

    But nameless or not, that's still the position on the matter that makes the best sense to me.
    Last edited by Ontologuy; 05-12-12 at 12:43 PM.
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  4. #154
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    I am a die hard Democrat but, abortion is one thing my Party has wrong... especially given the nefarious and blatant historical background of abortion. In which it is still being used a population tool to this day.

  5. #155
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by differentDEM View Post
    I am a die hard Democrat but, abortion is one thing my Party has wrong... especially given the nefarious and blatant historical background of abortion. In which it is still being used a population tool to this day.
    Thank you for your honesty. My hat is off to you...........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  6. #156
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by differentDEM View Post
    I am a die hard Democrat but, abortion is one thing my Party has wrong... especially given the nefarious and blatant historical background of abortion. In which it is still being used a population tool to this day.
    Not only do I disagree, but you can't prove your claim to be close to being true.

  7. #157
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by differentDEM View Post
    I am a die hard Democrat but, abortion is one thing my Party has wrong... especially given the nefarious and blatant historical background of abortion. In which it is still being used a population tool to this day.
    Yup, it's a great big conspiracy.

    Seriously though, got any proof of this population control plot and nefarious background?

    Abortion, as we're discussing it here, is something the women does of her own free will. 99 time out of 100, her reasons for doing so don't extend too far outside of herself and her immediate loved ones.

    I am not even sure what you're talking about.

  8. #158
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    But just to look at what you said with some scrutiny, I don't understand how you could turn around and be "pro-choice."

    If you "believe" that we are living human beings in the womb, then I have to tell you that it really isn't a question of belief, let alone "personal" ones. That our lifespan begins at conception and that we are human beings from the beginning of that lifespan until its end... both are established scientific fact.
    Our government has deemed that fetuses are property of the woman, thus subject to the right to choose. I don't agree with it personally, but I have no desire to force my own beliefs on those who do not agree.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Not only do I disagree, but you can't prove your claim to be close to being true.
    How many abortions is ok with you my left wing friend? There have been 54,000,000 since 1973....How many is to many? 60,000,00, 100,000,000. 200,000,000.........The whole population of the U.S. WHEN IS IT TO MANY???????


    Seriously, can you answer that?
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  10. #160
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Our government has deemed that fetuses are property of the woman, thus subject to the right to choose. I don't agree with it personally, but I have no desire to force my own beliefs on those who do not agree.

    For once in your life take a stand Lizzie.........Protect those who can't protect theirselves.......
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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