View Poll Results: Are you pro life or pro choice

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  • Pro Life

    22 31.88%
  • Pro Choice

    47 68.12%
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Thread: Are you pro life or pro choice

  1. #121
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The problem is that you are using circular and unclear reasoning. "Because it is human, it deserves human rights, therefore it should be given human rights" is really just stating the same thing in three different ways.
    It's a human life, and as such deserves human rights. We use this reasoning and the reasoning that all men are created equal to establish the concept of human rights. I don't really see how believing as such is in error.
    As far as why it is unclear: What is a human, exactly? Why do humans deserve human rights? Do all humans universally deserve human rights? What is a human right?
    Biologically it is human. A human egg and sperm fuse to make a human embryo. Personally, I think humans should be given human rights due to individual freedom. Why should blacks be treated as humans? What about whites, Asians, Hispanics, etc? I believe that a human rights is a right given to someone because we as a species value freedom and have a sense of morality. We don't deny minorities rights or others rights because we recognize that doing so is wrong and clashes with our sense of morality and freedom. As it is now, if anything to be consistent with the laws regarding human rights and equality I know that it's a violation to deny a fetus all rights and place its right to life below the personal feelings of a pregnant woman.
    The problem is that the most honest answers to those questions will, more than likely, lead to a conflict and contradiction in the initial argument about fetuses deserving human rights.
    I don't really think it leads to conflicts or contradictions. From the debates I've had I think the conflicts and contradictions exist in denying fetuses human rights and allowing women to electively chose whether or not someone else lives or dies. It's known fact that the embryo/fetus is all stages is human life, so the concept of "personhood" and the use of "personhood" to define if someone should have any rights is put into play.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Once they hit the ground, yes. A blob of cells that can spontaneously abort, no. Does Gawd hate the fetuses that spontaneously abort on their own?

  3. #123
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Being capable of complex thoughts =/= ****ing moron.

    I'm sorry that you are not capable of complex thoughts, but that doesn't mean that others aren't.
    If you think abortion is murder or should be considered murder then the last thing you should want is for it to be left up to the states.Again no one says I think rape,child molestation, bank robbery, or some other vile crime should be left up to the states to decide whether or not those things should be illegal and we damn well that the pro-abortion crowd does not want abortion left up to the state(Roe v. Wade is evidence they don't want it left it up to the states). So yes only a ****ing moron thinks it should be left up to the states.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  4. #124
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Once they hit the ground, yes. A blob of cells that can spontaneously abort, no. Does Gawd hate the fetuses that spontaneously abort on their own?
    The question, of course, then is is the miscarriaged "child" going to heaven or hell? If heaven, then both miscarriages and abortions are wonderful. If hell, then God is filling up hell with gzillions of "people" who never had a chance.

    So which one is it - the those who claim upon conception there is a "baby?"

  5. #125
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The question, of course, then is is the miscarriaged "child" going to heaven or hell? If heaven, then both miscarriages and abortions are wonderful. If hell, then God is filling up hell with gzillions of "people" who never had a chance.

    So which one is it - the those who claim upon conception there is a "baby?"
    While I don't think there's any official policy on it, all of the Catholic web sites I've looked at seem to suggest that any fetus, aborted or miscarried, automatically goes to heaven because it was innocent. Therefore, shouldn't Catholics, and by extension all Christians assuming they believe the same thing, be huge supporters of abortion? After all, you can't go to hell if you never had a chance to sin, right? So let's genocide the human species and send everyone to heaven!

    Sorry, that was me being logical. Can't have that.
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  6. #126
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Personally, pro-life. Legally, pro-choice.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  7. #127
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    And there there those that want absolutely no human rights for the unborn who will allow for partial birth abortions. If it's about reproductive rights why can't men abort their right to fatherhood? You have the choice to use contraception and birth control, and you chose to have sex (which obviously may result in pregnancy). Reproductive "rights" end at conception when another life has been created by your choices and decision to engage in intercourse.
    Good question. I think they should be able to.

    It is not any more right to force a man into personal or financial servitude than it is to force a woman to be fed off of by an unwelcome invader. Especially since women have the unilateral right to decide what to do with a pregnancy (as well she should, since it's happening to her body and hers alone). If the man gets no say in that decision, he should be allowed a say in how he reacts to it. If women have the unilateral right, they also have the unilateral responsibility to arrange for how they are going to execute their decision, either to abort or give birth. This includes establishing whether the man is willing to be involved, if she wants him to be.

    On a more general note, reproductive rights do not end for so long as reproduction is in progress.

    You aren't choosing to acknowledge birth control, etc, as a right. You are acknowledging it as something you're comfortable with. But once you stop liking it, you don't think people should be allowed to do it. People who are anti-abortion cannot possibly support reproductive rights, because their reasoning for supporting SOME reproductive rights has nothing to do with them being rights. You do not see them as rights. You seem them as things you have the ability to take away. It has solely to do with your comfort. Wanting to ban some rights that apply during the process of reproduction means you don't support reproductive rights.

    You support instituting rights for ZEF's, which is a complete departure from what we normally consider the criteria for something having rights. You cannot possibly support reproductive rights, or women's rights, at the same time because you are subordinating the woman as losing her rights and her personhood to the ZEF.

    You support preemptive birth control. You do not support reproductive rights, because you do not support women's right to make choices about reproduction, during reproduction.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 05-11-12 at 02:23 PM.

  8. #128
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Why is this abortion thread under this category?
    Maybe because its a poll????
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  9. #129
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Personally, pro-life. Legally, pro-choice.
    Going to make you make a choice, and if Roe V Wade was overturned?
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  10. #130
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    Re: Are you pro life or pro choice

    To you 28 people who have no problem with abortion, what if it was you in the womb ready to be born and the woman carrying you had a bad hair day or for any other reason decided to abort you.... I wonder if you might change your mind.............
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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