View Poll Results: What will you say?

Voters
24. You may not vote on this poll
  • "Told you so. Our dependence on fossil fuels is unsustainable."

    0 0%
  • "Told you so. The Federal Reserve completely destroyed the dollar."

    6 25.00%
  • "Told you so. The government spent and spent our grandchildren's money."

    7 29.17%
  • "Told you so. Should have taxed the rich more, Bush tax cuts killed us."

    4 16.67%
  • "Told you so. The corporations have completely wrecked the economy."

    4 16.67%
  • "Told you so. Union bosses have completely wrecked the economy."

    4 16.67%
  • "Told you so. The New World Order is here to take away American sovereignty!"

    3 12.50%
  • "Social Darwinism baby, let the strong survive."

    1 4.17%
  • Other

    9 37.50%
  • "Dah Bears."

    3 12.50%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 83

Thread: When the dollar crashes, setting off a spireling out of control chain of events, what

  1. #71
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: When the dollar crashes, setting off a spireling out of control chain of events,

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    It's quite an ingenious system where there is a tightly controlled social ladder to climb, with the government controlling the areas where there is no ladder to climb and a little more looser restrictions in the zones where the socially ladder could be climbed with great effort. This way you could divide your people up into 2 areas: the overly ambitious and the not so ambitious. And if the overly ambitious get politically ambitious you can always count on the far more populated areas of the not so ambitious.
    Ummm, no.

    Even though the PRC is a one-party system doesn't mean the CCP is a monolith. There are divisions now in the CCP and there have in the past been divisions in the CCP. Just look up the history of Deng Xiaoping and how his faction's push for reform was fought against by those who wanted to stick to Mao's dogma even after his death.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  2. #72
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-24-12 @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: When the dollar crashes, setting off a spireling out of control chain of events,

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Even though the PRC is a one-party system doesn't mean the CCP is a monolith.
    mmmm, so even though it's a one-party system, it's not really a one-party system.

  3. #73
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: When the dollar crashes, setting off a spireling out of control chain of events,

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    mmmm, so even though it's a one-party system, it's not really a one-party system.
    Ummmm, no.

    It is, indeed, a one-party system, as the CCP ensures that only members of the CCP has any sway.

    But because of that the CCP is, unofficially at least, much more diverse.

    Imagine that the Republican Party is the only party allowed in the U.S. That doesn't mean that those who hold the values of the Democratic Party - environmental regulations, labor rights, public services, etc. - don't have a say in government. Rather, it means that they have to hold those values while members of the Republican Party, and they are their own faction within it.

    The fewer parties there are in a government system, the more diverse they must inherently be. After all, in the Republican Party we have a faction that focuses on religious values and a separate faction that focuses on libertarian ideals. Many times, those factions fight with each other despite being of the same party.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  4. #74
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Last Seen
    07-07-16 @ 08:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    2,854

    Re: When the dollar crashes, setting off a spireling out of control chain of events,

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Okay then. In that case...

    Well, China is certainly having economic problems. For one, it's people have an insane savings rate. Individual Chinese people tend to save about 1/3 of their income. This is because they want to have that money on hand for medical bills and other unanticipated expenses. But what this is doing is preventing the PRC from developing a consumer economy like other developed nations have.
    All developing countries with high growth have high savings rates. Take a look at India, their savings rate are 35% of GDP. Indians are not that famous for saving. What these figures are not taking into account is the black market. I can tell you by living in China, the hidden economy is massive. So lets say the hidden economy is 100% of GDP or 50% of real GDP. Then savings rate are not higher than 15-20%. Also remember that China is a very investment lead country. That is why they have high growth. To have investment, then you need to save up money. I am not saying China is not too dependant on investments, but you need to broaden your view.

    The biggest problem, though, is that the quasi-capitalist system isn't working all throughout China. While the coastal areas, which is where the factories and modernization has been concentrated at, the rural interior is getting left behind. This is what the Chinese New Left, which I described earlier in this thread, is push for a return to more socialist values - because the regional economic differences are becoming greater and greater.
    Look, if you want revolution, then you need the whole country. If you only have a minority of the population, living in a segregated area, then you won't get very far. Another point is, most farmers have no possibility of revolution. Many of them have never left their village. These are not people who will rise up, or cause any problems for the communist party. At worst they will take back their village.

    They will get pretty much no support from the cities. This is not 1990. People in the cities are a lot more supportive of the Communist Party. They will not support a revolution led by west of China.

    And, yes, the Chinese people are well aware of these differences. The cheap labor in the factories in the coastal areas come from the rural interior. And they go back to visit their families during the week of the Chinese New Year. So that back and forth between the rural areas and the industrialized areas means the Chinese people are well capable of comparing and contrasting the disparities.
    Are you kidding me? Most Chinese who live in the cities, was raised in the cities and have their family in their cities. They don't go back to the countryside to celebrate Chinese New Year.

    When I was in China, I hardly met anyone who hated China. I only met one person who talked negative about China, (he told me how to get across the Chinese firewall). He didn't look like the kind of guy who would fight the Chinese government though. Uprisings happen when the majority hate the government. If not, it is not going to happen. Reality is, China had much more trouble in the 1990s, and if it didn't happen then, it won't happen now. You seem to hope there will be a socialist revolution, but people in the cities know about the terrible conditions in the past, they also hear about the terrible conditions in North Korea. They want to preserve status quo, they want to keep growing like now.

  5. #75
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: When the dollar crashes, setting off a spireling out of control chain of events,

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    All developing countries with high growth have high savings rates. Take a look at India, their savings rate are 35% of GDP. Indians are not that famous for saving. What these figures are not taking into account is the black market. I can tell you by living in China, the hidden economy is massive. So lets say the hidden economy is 100% of GDP or 50% of real GDP. Then savings rate are not higher than 15-20%. Also remember that China is a very investment lead country. That is why they have high growth. To have investment, then you need to save up money. I am not saying China is not too dependant on investments, but you need to broaden your view.


    Look, if you want revolution, then you need the whole country. If you only have a minority of the population, living in a segregated area, then you won't get very far. Another point is, most farmers have no possibility of revolution. Many of them have never left their village. These are not people who will rise up, or cause any problems for the communist party. At worst they will take back their village.

    They will get pretty much no support from the cities. This is not 1990. People in the cities are a lot more supportive of the Communist Party. They will not support a revolution led by west of China.


    Are you kidding me? Most Chinese who live in the cities, was raised in the cities and have their family in their cities. They don't go back to the countryside to celebrate Chinese New Year.

    When I was in China, I hardly met anyone who hated China. I only met one person who talked negative about China, (he told me how to get across the Chinese firewall). He didn't look like the kind of guy who would fight the Chinese government though. Uprisings happen when the majority hate the government. If not, it is not going to happen. Reality is, China had much more trouble in the 1990s, and if it didn't happen then, it won't happen now. You seem to hope there will be a socialist revolution, but people in the cities know about the terrible conditions in the past, they also hear about the terrible conditions in North Korea. They want to preserve status quo, they want to keep growing like now.
    1) The high savings rate is actually getting some Chinese people de facto negative interests. That is they are paying to have the Chinese banks keep and lend their money. This is lasting for now, but who knows how long it can.

    2) The PRC government actually wants to slow growth because the kind of growth they've been focusing on is unsustainable. They have built what are called "ghost cities" - huge cities with transportation infrastructure that has nobody living in them. I believe that one problem with these ghost cities is that they were built with a certain level of income that many Chinese people don't have - very similar to the U.S. foreclosure market.

    3) I'm not saying that the Chinese people saving so much of their income is a bad thing. I'm just pointing out that the government leaders are pushing for less of it so they can develop a consumer economy. They are having problems with this, though, because the Chinese are so used to saving.

    4) I never said I wanted a revolution. I said that there is dissent and agitation as the Chinese people are pushing for reform. But even such reform is quashed down by the PRC's security forces. And the resources spent on those security forces are resources that can't be used for foreign military campaigns.

    5) Even the emerging middle class want reforms in China. Too many children of party and government leaders have been getting special treatment, especially when they break the law. There was one incident of the son of a local party leader killing someone while driving drunk. He said that nothing could be done because his father was so important. Word of this spread throughout China's blogosphere. So the middle class are just as agitated about corruption as those in rural areas are agitated that they are not prospering.

    6) An example of this is Chen Guangcheng. He is a blind advocate of China's handicapped and disabled and speaks out against the government's use of the one-child policy to selectively abort and sterilize people. He is not a revolutionary who wants to bring down the PRC or the CCP. Rather, he wants the PRC government to follow the very laws they make. He, like many other Chinese, want reform, not revolution.

    7) There are political leaders in the PRC and the CCP who will use this call for reform in order to gain their own popular support as they pursue political power. So because there are support for these reforms by groups of people, there are politicians who will take that support and advocate for them.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  6. #76
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-24-12 @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: When the dollar crashes, setting off a spireling out of control chain of events,

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    5) Even the emerging middle class want reforms in China. Too many children of party and government leaders have been getting special treatment, especially when they break the law. There was one incident of the son of a local party leader killing someone while driving drunk. He said that nothing could be done because his father was so important. Word of this spread throughout China's blogosphere. So the middle class are just as agitated about corruption as those in rural areas are agitated that they are not prospering.
    More anecdotes. There is no "emerging middle class in china".

  7. #77
    Dungeon Master
    Somewhere in Babylon
    Jetboogieman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in Babylon...
    Last Seen
    @
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,322
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: When the dollar crashes, setting off a spireling out of control chain of events,

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    There is no "emerging middle class in china".
    You for real?

  8. #78
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-24-12 @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: When the dollar crashes, setting off a spireling out of control chain of events,

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Ummmm, no.

    It is, indeed, a one-party system, as the CCP ensures that only members of the CCP has any sway.

    But because of that the CCP is, unofficially at least, much more diverse.
    yeaaaaha, it's a 1 party system, but NOT REALLY a 1 party system.

    Imagine that the Republican Party is the only party allowed in the U.S. That doesn't mean that those who hold the values of the Democratic Party - environmental regulations, labor rights, public services, etc. - don't have a say in government. Rather, it means that they have to hold those values while members of the Republican Party, and they are their own faction within it.
    Comparisons with the Republican/Democrat Party, truly you are a globalist if you cannot see the difference between a Communist Authoritarian state and a Democratic-Representative one.

    The fewer parties there are in a government system, the more diverse they must inherently be.
    Yeah the, "It's a 1-party that's NOT REALLY a 1-party," because it's China and I have my entire family invested in China so it must be good.

  9. #79
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-24-12 @ 12:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: When the dollar crashes, setting off a spireling out of control chain of events,

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    You for real?
    Another brainwashed by the globalist-media victim speaks.

  10. #80
    Pontificator
    iliveonramen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    On a Gravy Train with Biscuit Wheels
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    9,213

    Re: When the dollar crashes, setting off a spireling out of control chain of events,

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Doubt the "line of credit" will be much of a business practice once the dollar gets hairy, and it's not very long term.
    You chose the just one of the many. It's all factors together. Like when that business that sells the bulk of it's goods to Wal-Mart now has cash problems. They of course go to short term financing to cover their payroll etc. Of course at the same time the financial firms who have considerable assets that are valued in dollars have seen their balance sheets deteriorate. THEIR creditors aren't refinancing their short term debt because their creditors are now having balance sheet problems.

    Just remember...it was President Bush's administration that stepped in and backed short term loans during the last financial crises. This was to faciliate that short term financing that trade depends on. Not only do you have a financial mess but the country that generally deals with problems on a global scale is now out of commission.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •