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What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward..

  • Develop a base? (i.e.: local, state, Congress, etc.)

    Votes: 12 48.0%

  • Elect a President without a base?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Be included in Presidential debates?

    Votes: 10 40.0%

  • Carry 10%+ of the Presidental popular vote?

    Votes: 4 16.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 14 56.0%
  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .
VanceMack said:
Drop ANY mention of legalizing drugs. Focus on states rights, roles, and responsibilities. Promote return to constitutional form of government. Adopt intelligent and reasonable foreign policy stands. Oh...and it would help to CONTINUALLY point out the 16 trillion dollar debt and annual deficits that the two primary parties have saddled the country with and their completely inept manner.
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In other words, they need to become the party of the far right? I thought that was the Tea Party?
 
People I know see Libertarians as rich people who got theirs, refuse to share the benefits they got from society, who use arcane political philosophies and feel-good buzzwords to justify their refusing to pay society back.

Some people. Not me. I think Libertarians are great.
 
RadicalModerate said:
People I know see Libertarians as rich people who got theirs, refuse to share the benefits they got from society, who use arcane political philosophies and feel-good buzzwords to justify their refusing to pay society back.

Some people. Not me. I think Libertarians are great.
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Wish I were rich.
 
radcen said:
What does Libertarian Party (party, not individuals) need to happen for them to move forward in their agenda and helping the country?

There are some who are so anti-libertarian that they will never give the notion an objective chance, but they will post here anyway. *sigh*. Personally, while I used to be libertarian, I no longer consider myself to be so, yet I still hold many of the ideals. Where they lose me is the utter lack of understanding of human nature, but be that as it may, there's a great deal of the philosophy that I still like. Anyway...

If libertarian philosophy and the Libertarian Party is to move forward and actually effect change, what has to happen? I'm speaking primarily for this year and in this year's November elections.

1. Develop a base? I.e.: local, state, Congress, etc. offices first?
2. Elect a President without a base?
3. Be included in Presidential debates?
4. Carry 10%+ of the popular vote in the Presidential election?
5. Other?

To me, the Libertarian Party's biggest roadblock is itself. It doesn't organize locally. It doesn't build from the ground up. It would have to become what it loathes... a political organization that plays the game... in order to expand beyond the fringes. This is really the catch-22, isn't it? Compromise to gain access and change, or remain loyal to ideals and remain irrelevant.

Note: This link is just meant as a reference for the thread... Gary Johnson 2.0: the Libertarians
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1. they need a ronald reagan like figure
2. a willing to moderate positions and compromise
3. mass changes in human nature (probably the hardest)
 
Catawba said:
In other words, they need to become the party of the far right? I thought that was the Tea Party?
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Of course you thought that. Luckily there are SOME reasonable, intelligent people...even liberals...who are smart enough to see the federal government, the dems and the republicans for the dismal failures that they are. Unfortunately, there are far too many people like you on both the left and right looking for bigger shovels with which to bury your grandchildren.
 
Your question is based on a false premise. Libertarians are not interested in 'helping the country'. If you are a Libertarian, your only interest is in helping yourself and to hell with everybody else. It's why you are a Libertarian.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Explaining anything to you, is a fruitless en devour.
Any and every time, a thread on libertarians or libertarianism comes up, you trot your way in to insult all said members.

Why should I waste my time on someone with an ax to grind?
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But your zany political philosophy is so eminently insultable, how can we be blamed?
 
Wiggen said:
Your question is based on a false premise. Libertarians are not interested in 'helping the country'. If you are a Libertarian, your only interest is in helping yourself and to hell with everybody else. It's why you are a Libertarian.
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This is blatant misstatement of Libertarianism. You are assuming that government can do no harm, which is false. Libertarianism is about improving the nation, because they are about doing away with the harmful government.
 
Nick2253 said:
This is blatant misstatement of Libertarianism. You are assuming that government can do no harm, which is false. Libertarianism is about improving the nation, because they are about doing away with the harmful government.
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IMO, many libertarians fail to see that private actors and private businesses can screw you just as much as government can.
 
VanceMack said:
Of course you thought that. Luckily there are SOME reasonable, intelligent people...even liberals...who are smart enough to see the federal government, the dems and the republicans for the dismal failures that they are. Unfortunately, there are far too many people like you on both the left and right looking for bigger shovels with which to bury your grandchildren.
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Got ya! You are waiting for the perfect candidate to vote for to create the perfect utopia. Best of luck with the perfection you are looking for!
 
Ikari said:
Wish I were rich.
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I just had a thought; the current "mainstream" right-libertarianism that is trying to make a name politically is a lot like the Secret. They both kind of portray themselves as this kind of "hidden knowledge" that has the power to unlock all your desires. The Secret says if you work really hard putting good energy into the universe, you will be rewarded; if it doesn't work for you, then you're not working hard enough. Right-libertarianism is kind of the same thing; it says that if you work really hard and put energy into that particular economic system, you will be rewarded. If it doesn't work and your still poor, then you're not working hard enough.

Ultimately they both have the same dirty little secret works. The Secret doesn't work in our universe, and neither does this particularly harsh strain of libertarianism. Under their utopian vision of small, ineffective government and massive private, unrestrained power and control, the individual is crushed by the weight of our giant economy. The sheer cost of living, when given over to freed market forces, would simply decimate many people. It's a philosophy for a microlevel, not the world's most powerful nation.
 
Catawba said:
Got ya! You are waiting for the perfect candidate to vote for to create the perfect utopia. Best of luck with the perfection you are looking for!
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Perfect/ Nah...Id settle for a congress that could do something as simple as agree to a reasonable budget and not spend their entire time pandering to their drooling mindless supporters.
 
German guy said:
IMO, many libertarians fail to see that private actors and private businesses can screw you just as much as government can.
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It's much easier to get rid of a bad business than a bad government. You can refuse to do business with a private business, and they will fail from lack of funds. Not so with a government who gets your money and your business regardless of how solid or honest they are, or are not.
 
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lizzie said:
It's much easier to get rid of a bad business than a bad government. You can refuse to do business with a private business, and they will fail from lack of funds. Not so with a government who gets your money and your business regardless of how solid or honest they are, or are not.
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You can't overthrow a private organization. Government are usually responsible to the people, and if they mess up, they go down. Private corporations are only responsible to their shareholders. Try overthrowing a corporation sometime. Tell me how many seconds before the police come and stop you?
 
lizzie said:
It's much easier to get rid of a bad business than a bad government. You can refuse to do business with a private business, and they will fail from lack of funds. Not so with a government who gets your money and your business regardless of how solid or honest they are, or are not.
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True. But in practize, I am not less skeptic of government than of private businesses. The only thing that can keep government in check is the private sector, and the only thing that can keep the private sector in check is government. It's all about a good balance.

I think we found that point before, but I also think that the protection of private property does not have priority. Saving human life and dignity has a priority before private possession, IMO.
 
RadicalModerate said:
You can't overthrow a private organization. Government are usually responsible to the people, and if they mess up, they go down. Private corporations are only responsible to their shareholders.
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Governments buy people (votes) with promises which are financed by those who are paying. Government isn't, as a rule, responsible to anything besides what it takes to hold on to power.
 
lizzie said:
It's much easier to get rid of a bad business than a bad government. You can refuse to do business with a private business, and they will fail from lack of funds. Not so with a government who gets your money and your business regardless of how solid or honest they are, or are not.
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Tobacco companies spent billions trying to convince people cigarettes were healthy. Exxon-Mobil is spending billions to convince people fossil fuels don't cause global warming. Think any of these will fail any time soon?
 
VanceMack said:
Perfect/ Nah...Id settle for a congress that could do something as simple as agree to a reasonable budget and not spend their entire time pandering to their drooling mindless supporters.
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Well what are you waiting for? Get out there and work to elect candidates you think will do that. Democracy is not a spectator sport.
 
lizzie said:
It's much easier to get rid of a bad business than a bad government. You can refuse to do business with a private business, and they will fail from lack of funds. Not so with a government who gets your money and your business regardless of how solid or honest they are, or are not.
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Without a government, they would form monopolies, so you would not have a choice of who to buy from.

BTW, how is the no government thing working out for Somalia?
 
RadicalModerate said:
Tobacco companies spent billions trying to convince people cigarettes were healthy. Exxon-Mobil is spending billions to convince people fossil fuels don't cause global warming. Think any of these will fail any time soon?
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If people refuse to buy their products, then they will fail.
 
lizzie said:
Governments buy people (votes) with promises which are financed by those who are paying.
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Which is exactly my point. We can throw out every politician that is bought off, three more are right behind him. So how do we address the businesses that are essentially calling the shots for our representatives if they are private entities, endowed with full rights as citizens to political speech and have bottomless pits of money and entire battalions of lawyers to defend against every possible attack?

Government isn't, as a rule, responsible to anything besides what it takes to hold on to power.
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Which rule is that? Because that's not what our rules say.
 
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RadicalModerate said:
Which is exactly my point. We can throw out every politician that is bought off, three more are right behind him. So how do we address the businesses that are essentially calling the shots for our representatives if they are private entities, endowed with full rights as citizens to political speech and have bottomless pits of money and entire battalions of lawyers to defend against every possible attack?
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Get rid of lobbying, special interest groups, and subsidization of industries/business.
 
lizzie said:
If people refuse to buy their products, then they will fail.
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Cop out. You know that never works. Comcast sucks, everyone in CO hates them and yet they're the number 1 cable provider in the state. The entire US of A hates BP, guess who's still here? Huge businesses don't fail because people don't like them or are opposed to what they're doing. They fail because they aren't making enough profit or the government shuts them down.

This is a frustrating sticking point to me with mainstream libertarians; the insistence on easy explanations for complex things.
 
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