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What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward..

  • Develop a base? (i.e.: local, state, Congress, etc.)

    Votes: 12 48.0%

  • Elect a President without a base?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Be included in Presidential debates?

    Votes: 10 40.0%

  • Carry 10%+ of the Presidental popular vote?

    Votes: 4 16.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 14 56.0%
  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .
RabidAlpaca said:
First it needs to work on it's PR. Very few people in America even know what libertarianism is about. This is largely due to the fact that the media gives them zero attention, and the media gives them zero attention because they don't have a base. It's a vicious cycle.
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I think there are very few that are not familiar with the Libertarian platform. Its really not that hard to Google.

Platform | Libertarian Party

The problem is that it is too extreme for the majority of voters.

The far left and the far right have the same problem as Libertarians in that regard, which is why moderates get elected.
 
haymarket said:
I really do not pay much attention to him or his posts. Nor do I care to study him or his posts.

So NO, its not clear at all.
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Horrible political hack. Is THAT clear enough for you?
 
Catawba said:
I think there are very few that are not familiar with the Libertarian platform. Its really not that hard to Google.

Platform | Libertarian Party

The problem is that it is too extreme for the majority of voters.

The far left and the far right have the same problem as Libertarians in that regard, which is why moderates get elected.
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The libertarian party is not nearly as well known as you postulate. Many people struggle simply to name to two major parties in the US. Just because it is easy to Google doesn't mean people know about it. By that logic everyone should know everything on the Internet.

The LP's problem is not that it is extreme. In fact, most of the positions that the LP has were one time or another a party plank of either Dems or Repubs. The problem in that regard is that the LP is absolutist. The platform is what it is, and there's not a lot of room for people who disagree with this or that.
 
Just my two cents as a European:

You need a different electoral system that gives third (and fourth) parties a chance.

I know France is not popular, but maybe the Presidentials could be modelled after their example: Have a first turn when all candidates are running (from both sides) and a second turn when the two best of the first get a run-off.

Or change from "the winner takes it all" to proportional representation.
 
German guy said:
Just my two cents as a European:

You need a different electoral system that gives third (and fourth) parties a chance.

I know France is not popular, but maybe the Presidentials could be modelled after their example: Have a first turn when all candidates are running (from both sides) and a second turn when the two best of the first get a run-off.

Or change from "the winner takes it all" to proportional representation.
Click to expand...

That would be nice, but unfortunately, there's a mindset in this country that there are only two choices. All or nothing. Black or white. You're either for us, or against us. Very few people are willing to live and let live. In this country, politics has become a religion of sorts.
 
lizzie said:
That would be nice, but unfortunately, there's a mindset in this country that there are only two choices. All or nothing. Black or white. You're either for us, or against us. Very few people are willing to live and let live. In this country, politics has become a religion of sorts.
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Maybe religion. I think it's become more a closed off system to competition which encourages emotional response and discourages intellectual evaluation.
 
German guy said:
Just my two cents as a European:

You need a different electoral system that gives third (and fourth) parties a chance.

I know France is not popular, but maybe the Presidentials could be modelled after their example: Have a first turn when all candidates are running (from both sides) and a second turn when the two best of the first get a run-off.

Or change from "the winner takes it all" to proportional representation.
Click to expand...
This is a great point. I was completely amazed when I first saw how the German electoral system worked. There was a plethora of political parties, not a stagnant left and right. Parties die out, and new ones take their place. Proportional representation after 5% of the vote, so even the little guys can get their representation.

In our country if you're not with the majority, you have no voice.
 
Nick2253 said:
The libertarian party is not nearly as well known as you postulate. Many people struggle simply to name to two major parties in the US. Just because it is easy to Google doesn't mean people know about it. By that logic everyone should know everything on the Internet.
Click to expand...

I've never met anyone who was not aware of the platform of the LP.
 
Catawba said:
I've never met anyone who was not aware of the platform of the LP.
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I think it depends on where you look. Academia there's a lot of libertarians out there and you get exposed to them, same as political boards. But when you detach from those sects and get perchance more into "common" America, the platform is well unknown and misunderstood more than anything else.
 
Ikari said:
I think it depends on where you look. Academia there's a lot of libertarians out there and you get exposed to them, same as political boards. But when you detach from those sects and get perchance more into "common" America, the platform is well unknown and misunderstood more than anything else.
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Again, I have never met anyone here in Virginia, not a hotbed for liberalism, that is not aware of the Libertarian platform.
 
lizzie said:
That would be nice, but unfortunately, there's a mindset in this country that there are only two choices. All or nothing. Black or white. You're either for us, or against us. Very few people are willing to live and let live. In this country, politics has become a religion of sorts.
Click to expand...

Yes, I noticed that and found it unfortunate. It would be better if you had more than just two parties to chose from.

But Europe, or Germany in particular, is not flawless either, of course. You often see a certain consensus among the established parties and a lack of polarization (especially during the "grand coalition" of the two large parties from left and right 2005-2009) that made many people believe all established parties are the same anyway. So they either abstained from voting, or voted for the outsiders, be that the socialist Left Party or the newcoming Pirate Party.

A certain degree of polarization is probably not a bad thing. Maybe we have too much of it in America, but too few of it in Germany.
 
Catawba said:
Again, I have never met anyone here in Virginia, not a hotbed for liberalism, that is not aware of the Libertarian platform.
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Fair enough. I have seen places where it's well known and where it's not well know at all.
 
German guy said:
Yes, I noticed that and found it unfortunate. It would be better if you had more than just two parties to chose from.

But Europe, or Germany in particular, is not flawless either, of course. You often see a certain consensus among the established parties and a lack of polarization (especially during the "grand coalition" of the two large parties from left and right 2005-2009) that made many people believe all established parties are the same anyway. So they either abstained from voting, or voted for the outsiders, be that the socialist Left Party or the newcoming Pirate Party.

A certain degree of polarization is probably not a bad thing. Maybe we have too much of it in America, but too few of it in Germany.
Click to expand...

The political polarization in American politics is sickening and dangerous.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
This is a great point. I was completely amazed when I first saw how the German electoral system worked. There was a plethora of political parties, not a stagnant left and right. Parties die out, and new ones take their place. Proportional representation after 5% of the vote, so even the little guys can get their representation.

In our country if you're not with the majority, you have no voice.
Click to expand...

I really like the German system. But it also has its flaws. It can give small or even tiny parties an overproportional amount of power. Between 1965 and 1983, the libertarian FDP, for example, was in the comfortable situation to either chose the major left-wing or right-wing party as their coalition partner. So a party of 5% to 10% of the votes had the power to decide whether the government would be center-left or center-right.
 
Catawba said:
Again, I have never met anyone here in Virginia, not a hotbed for liberalism, that is not aware of the Libertarian platform.
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From my personal experience, the majority of average americans are completely ignorant to everything that isn't force fed to them via fox news or CNN, and because these agencies rarely, if ever, mention libertarianism, they are then left in the dark about it.

Or maybe I just need to surround myself with more intellectual people.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
From my personal experience, the majority of average americans are completely ignorant to everything that isn't force fed to them via fox news or CNN, and because these agencies rarely, if ever, mention libertarianism, they are then left in the dark about it.

Or maybe I just need to surround myself with more intellectual people.
Click to expand...

Maybe. I do find that places which in general have higher educated people, there is a larger understanding and acceptance of Libertarian political philosophy.
 
haymarket said:
YOu really don't know me very well at all.
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I know your arguments on this subject very well (note, I am saying that on this subject, you are a horrible political hack; not that you are a horrible political hack on ALL subjects). Dispute the data if you want, but arguing against measurement is a futile effort.
 
radcen said:
What does Libertarian Party (party, not individuals) need to happen for them to move forward in their agenda and helping the country?

There are some who are so anti-libertarian that they will never give the notion an objective chance, but they will post here anyway. *sigh*. Personally, while I used to be libertarian, I no longer consider myself to be so, yet I still hold many of the ideals. Where they lose me is the utter lack of understanding of human nature, but be that as it may, there's a great deal of the philosophy that I still like. Anyway...

If libertarian philosophy and the Libertarian Party is to move forward and actually effect change, what has to happen? I'm speaking primarily for this year and in this year's November elections.

1. Develop a base? I.e.: local, state, Congress, etc. offices first?
2. Elect a President without a base?
3. Be included in Presidential debates?
4. Carry 10%+ of the popular vote in the Presidential election?
5. Other?

To me, the Libertarian Party's biggest roadblock is itself. It doesn't organize locally. It doesn't build from the ground up. It would have to become what it loathes... a political organization that plays the game... in order to expand beyond the fringes. This is really the catch-22, isn't it? Compromise to gain access and change, or remain loyal to ideals and remain irrelevant.

Note: This link is just meant as a reference for the thread... Gary Johnson 2.0: the Libertarians
Click to expand...

I voted other.

They need to lobby for voting system reform that allows for third parties to get elected, such as a two-round voting system or an instant run-off ballot for elections.

As long as we do the first-past-the-post system of election in which a candidate needs only a plurality, not a majority, of votes to get elected we will always inherently have a two-party system.

Duverger's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
RabidAlpaca said:
From my personal experience, the majority of average americans are completely ignorant to everything that isn't force fed to them via fox news or CNN, and because these agencies rarely, if ever, mention libertarianism, they are then left in the dark about it.

Or maybe I just need to surround myself with more intellectual people.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the Libertarian party needs to do what Jeff Cohen is suggesting the Democrats do:

Progressive Election Strategy and the Norman Solomon Campaign
 
They need to develop a realistic platform.

Otherwise, forget it.
 
Drop ANY mention of legalizing drugs. Focus on states rights, roles, and responsibilities. Promote return to constitutional form of government. Adopt intelligent and reasonable foreign policy stands. Oh...and it would help to CONTINUALLY point out the 16 trillion dollar debt and annual deficits that the two primary parties have saddled the country with and their completely inept manner.
 
VanceMack said:
Drop ANY mention of legalizing drugs. Focus on states rights, roles, and responsibilities. Promote return to constitutional form of government. Adopt intelligent and reasonable foreign policy stands. Oh...and it would help to CONTINUALLY point out the 16 trillion dollar debt and annual deficits that the two primary parties have saddled the country with and their completely inept manner.
Click to expand...

Drug legalization is an aside, focus should be put as you say. Focus on the philosophy, what does libertarianism say? Don't focus on "weed should be legal". It should be, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I think there is a lot of worth in the libertarian philosophy in general for how a government should act particularly in regards to the rights and liberties of its citizens.
 
Ikari said:
Drug legalization is an aside, focus should be put as you say. Focus on the philosophy, what does libertarianism say? Don't focus on "weed should be legal". It should be, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I think there is a lot of worth in the libertarian philosophy in general for how a government should act particularly in regards to the rights and liberties of its citizens.
Click to expand...
Its even easier...its a state issue. If California wants to legalize pot...or gay marriage...become a sanctuary state and offer massive welfare and social services...or whatever...then that is for the citizens of the state of California to decide and to manage and pay for.
 
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