View Poll Results: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward..

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  • Develop a base? (i.e.: local, state, Congress, etc.)

    15 53.57%
  • Elect a President without a base?

    0 0%
  • Be included in Presidential debates?

    10 35.71%
  • Carry 10%+ of the Presidental popular vote?

    4 14.29%
  • Other

    14 50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

  1. #81
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It's not a cop out. If there is no demand for their product, they will not survive, unless they are getting subsidized from somewhere.
    Or that they have a monopoly because there is no government regulation to prevent it.

    BTW, how's that small government thing working out for the people of Somalia?
    Last edited by Catawba; 05-08-12 at 10:28 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #82
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It's not a cop out. If there is no demand for their product, they will not survive, unless they are getting subsidized from somewhere.
    It's a great paper theory, but real life doesn't always work that way.

    Under a true free market, monopolies would eventually form in many major industries. If not nationally, at least regionally. If you live in the upper midwest, and Oil Company A comes in and buys all of the gas stations stations one at a time, eventually people are left with no choice, yet they still have to buy gas, even if nobody likes Oil Company A.

    At that point saying the market will decide is nothing more than a hollow talking point. It means nothing. Opening a gas station or forming an oil company is so cost-prohibitive that it is a moronic suggestion for the average person.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #83
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    You do realize large companies diversify? They have money coming from other companies they own. I'm saying it would be impossible to shrink demand to bankrupt a corporation doing things that are harmful. Do you really think the other companies, who buy their necessary products from that corporation, would go along with the boycott at the expense of their own profitability?

    You're living in a dream world. Just because something is theoretically possible doesn't make it possible in the real world, Joise.
    I agree insofar as the ideals of a perfect free market are unrealistic. For example, there will always be an information asymmetry. And power structures, due to people depending on certain goods for mere survival, make the idealistic libertarian approach unrealistic too. (I.e. you can't expect a bunch of starving people to boycott a bread selling company because of its bad practizes.)

    Free markets shift the power to those enjoying the benefit of possession. The "have-nots" are underrepresented in such a system. They have "nothing to lose except their chains". And sooner or later, they'll realize that.

    I don't say that because I agree with Marxism. I just think it's realistic.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  4. #84
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Exactly. You want to be elected to government because you don't believe in government. Why should the American people elect you to anything?
    Not all government is bad. Libertarianism depends on government to help secure rights and liberties. Like all political parties, there are certain functions that are determined to be beneficial, and those that aren't. The Libertarian view favors less government.

  5. #85
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I agree insofar as the ideals of a perfect free market are unrealistic. For example, there will always be an information asymmetry. And power structures, due to people depending on certain goods for mere survival, make the idealistic libertarian approach unrealistic too. (I.e. you can't expect a bunch of starving people to boycott a bread selling company because of its bad practizes.)

    Free markets shift the power to those enjoying the benefit of possession. The "have-nots" are underrepresented in such a system. They have "nothing to lose except their chains". And sooner or later, they'll realize that.

    I don't say that because I agree with Marxism. I just think it's realistic.
    In my view, at their best, markets represent a truly level playing field. Everyone's money is green, whether your getting it or taking it. The marketplace is an effective self-regulating system that is driven to the mathematical equilibrium. Caveats to this; the more constants, the better it works. The larger and more complex it becomes, the equilibrium (ie, the most efficient allocation of resources) becomes hard to find because of the constant movement from other factors. So by extension, the smaller the market, the freer it should be. Also, markets can and do fail in numerous situations. Pollution for one, the tragedy of the commons. Market failures often do require some government intervention, but that fact does not prerequisite a need for industry killing environmental laws. Using specific economic models and knowledge, you would probably conclude that attaching a cost to pollution is market based way to solve it (a market-based solution).

    A 21st century free-market economy requires effective and competent government. That's a fact that the libertarian movement better come to grips with if they want a popsicle's chance of being a legit political voice in America. Libertarians should be the voice of reason, wanting hard data and numbers from economists as to the truly best way to be a free-market economy with a role in future. They seem to be getting in their own way in some respects.
    Last edited by RadicalModerate; 05-08-12 at 11:19 PM.

  6. #86
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    It's a great paper theory, but real life doesn't always work that way.

    Under a true free market, monopolies would eventually form in many major industries. If not nationally, at least regionally. If you live in the upper midwest, and Oil Company A comes in and buys all of the gas stations stations one at a time, eventually people are left with no choice, yet they still have to buy gas, even if nobody likes Oil Company A.

    At that point saying the market will decide is nothing more than a hollow talking point. It means nothing. Opening a gas station or forming an oil company is so cost-prohibitive that it is a moronic suggestion for the average person.
    Oil is a bad example. Oil is and more importantly has been assisted by the government in many ways for a long time and would of never gotten the power structure it has without it.

  7. #87
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    That would be nice, but unfortunately, there's a mindset in this country that there are only two choices. All or nothing. Black or white. You're either for us, or against us. Very few people are willing to live and let live. In this country, politics has become a religion of sorts.
    Yes, and with the great majority in this country not really wanting to practice either religion but compelled to "believe" one way or the other or go to political-insignificance hell.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

  8. #88
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick2253 View Post
    The Libertarian view favors less government.
    In what respect? Like, less regulation of the airline industry?

  9. #89
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Oil is a bad example. Oil is and more importantly has been assisted by the government in many ways for a long time and would of never gotten the power structure it has without it.
    Well, it's a good example of the restrictive cost argument.

    You sure that oil wouldn't be the dominant fuel if not for government-funded monopolization? I can't really buy that...

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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    BTW, how's that small government thing working out for the people of Somalia?
    Well, by that argument; how's that big government thing working out for the people of Sierra Leone?

    Apples to oranges, I'm afraid.

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