View Poll Results: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward..

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  • Develop a base? (i.e.: local, state, Congress, etc.)

    15 53.57%
  • Elect a President without a base?

    0 0%
  • Be included in Presidential debates?

    10 35.71%
  • Carry 10%+ of the Presidental popular vote?

    4 14.29%
  • Other

    14 50.00%
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Thread: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

  1. #141
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick2253 View Post
    What's your point? Simply because the government's official name has the "People's Republic of China" in it it's not libertarian? Economically, HK follows a system very similar to the LP's platform. Socially, HK is more restrictive in some ways.
    Libertarians agree that all their leaders must be endorsed by China??
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #142
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We were predominantly an agrarian society then. We are no longer, and you would have rioting in the streets with millions without jobs or alternate source of survival.
    How would phasing out social security leave millions without jobs or alternate sources of survival??

    This is ludicrous. You obviously have nothing more than an armchair understanding of the LP or the Libertarian Platform. Reducing regulations does not mean cutting all regulations. Privatizing entitlements does not mean pulling the plug on grandma's SS checks. Reducing the size of government does not mean anarchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Libertarians agree that all their leaders must be endorsed by China??
    That's one hell of a straw man and you know it. You've been arguing throughout this thread that the policies promoted by the LP aren't viable because no country uses them (well, other than your other straw man of Somalia). Well, HK, among others, does. The fact that HK is part of the PRC is irrelevant, especially since the PRC has almost no direct control over the government of HK. For all intents and purposes, HK is its own country.

    Furthermore, just because HK uses some libertarian principles in its governance, does not mean that HK is 100% libertarian, nor does it mean that the LP wants to be exactly like HK. You asked for an example, and you have one. The fact is, no 1st world country is 100% libertarian. But that, too, is a straw man, since no two 1st world countries use exactly the same form of governance. In fact, if you look at the Dem's platform, you'd actually be looking at a platform that no other country in the world uses exactly.

  3. #143
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick2253 View Post
    How would phasing out social security leave millions without jobs or alternate sources of survival??
    Eliminating SS/medicare/medicaid/welfare/unemployment insurance will cause the millions that already do not have jobs due to trickle down economy and deregulation, to have no where to turn but crime for survival. The CBO estimates that Ryan's plan for privatizing Medicare alone would cost seniors $6,000 a year more in out of pocket costs.


    The fact that HK is part of the PRC is irrelevant, especially since the PRC has almost no direct control over the government of HK.
    HK's leaders must be endorsed by China and they enjoy the protection of China.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #144
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Eliminating SS/medicare/medicaid/welfare/unemployment insurance will cause the millions that already do not have jobs due to trickle down economy and deregulation, to have no where to turn but crime for survival. The CBO estimates that Ryan's plan for privatizing Medicare alone would cost seniors $6,000 a year more in out of pocket costs.
    People would have no where to turn but crime!? Your assertions are baseless. And again, "phasing out" =/= "cold-turkey elimination." Look at the way Chile handled the privatization of their social safety nets. Furthermore, the Ryan plan is not very Libertarian, any way you slice it. So don't conflate the two.

    HK's leaders must be endorsed by China and they enjoy the protection of China.
    A fact that no one disputes. So what? That has absolutely nothing to do with why it was brought up in the first place.

  5. #145
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick2253 View Post
    People would have no where to turn but crime!? Your assertions are baseless. And again, "phasing out" =/= "cold-turkey elimination." Look at the way Chile handled the privatization of their social safety nets. Furthermore, the Ryan plan is not very Libertarian, any way you slice it. So don't conflate the two.
    Ryan's plan does what the Libertarian platform calls for.

    "We favor restoring and reviving a free market health care system."
    Platform | Libertarian Party

    And Chile "has a high economic inequality".
    Chile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    A fact that no one disputes.

    ..................
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #146
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Libertarians agree that all their leaders must be endorsed by China??
    Honk Kong was under control of the UK until 1997.
    Of course, you totally didn't even read anything else about it and it makes your comments look entirely ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    Under the principle of "one country, two systems", Hong Kong has a different political system from mainland China.[20] Hong Kong's independent judiciaryfunctions under the common law framework.[21][22]Hong Kong Basic Law, its constitutional document, stipulates that Hong Kong shall have a "high degree of autonomy" in all matters except foreign relations and military defence, governs its political system.[23][24] Although it has a burgeoning multi-party system, a small-circle electorate[clarification needed] controls half of its legislature. The Chief Executive of Hong Kong, the head of government, is selected by a Selection Committee / Election Committee with 400 to 1200 members, during the first 20 years.[25][26][27][28]
    Hong Kong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  7. #147
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick2253 View Post
    People would have no where to turn but crime!? Your assertions are baseless. And again, "phasing out" =/= "cold-turkey elimination." Look at the way Chile handled the privatization of their social safety nets. Furthermore, the Ryan plan is not very Libertarian, any way you slice it. So don't conflate the two.



    A fact that no one disputes. So what? That has absolutely nothing to do with why it was brought up in the first place.
    Debating with this guy is entirely pointless.
    The ample amounts of straw men, misleading quoting and totally taking things out of context is the mo of his posts.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #148
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Honk Kong was under control of the UK until 1997.
    Of course, you totally didn't even read anything else about it and it makes your comments look entirely ridiculous.



    Hong Kong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "1997: Hong Kong handed over to Chinese control
    Hong Kong has been handed back to the Chinese authorities - ending more than 150 years of British control."
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2656973.stm

    Just as long as your country is controlled by another, that's what makes Libertarianism work?
    Last edited by Catawba; 05-10-12 at 05:30 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #149
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Debating with this guy is entirely pointless.
    The ample amounts of straw men, misleading quoting and totally taking things out of context is the mo of his posts.

    Debating the poster and not the subject appears to be your "mo".
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #150
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    Re: What does Libertarian Party need to happen for them to move forward...

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "1997: Hong Kong handed over to Chinese control
    Hong Kong has been handed back to the Chinese authorities - ending more than 150 years of British control."

    Just as long as your country is controlled by another, that's what makes Libertarianism work?
    Right, are you going to totally ignore the entire rest of the article in relation to the internal operations of Hong Kong or are you going to still, continue on this rant?
    When you apply such a childish, superficial understanding of the workings of Hong Kong, you do in fact, come to the conclusion that your posts have made.

    Keeping on trucking.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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