View Poll Results: Choose three social programs(3 only)

Voters
24. You may not vote on this poll
  • Universal Healthcare

    15 62.50%
  • Education/k-12 + 4 years higher ed

    16 66.67%
  • Emergency welfare/medical/unemployment benefits

    9 37.50%
  • Social Security/medical for elderly/retired

    12 50.00%
  • Disability/medical services and benefits

    9 37.50%
  • Veterans/medical services and benefits

    10 41.67%
  • Planned Parenthood services

    5 20.83%
  • Arts&Entertainment/PBS funding

    4 16.67%
  • Emergency corporate/economy bailout fund

    4 16.67%
  • Illegal Alien emergency assistance and services

    1 4.17%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    All of those are very very important priorities
    You and I are at opposite ends of the political spectrum_

    You believe in zero boundaries for socialism and I believe in zero socialism_

    This poll/thread is about priorities and compromise__Give a little, take a little_

    If you understand the concept of priorities and compromise, this should be no problem.

    Keep in mind, this is for discussion purposes only and unless people wise up, not likely to happen.
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    You and I are at opposite ends of the political spectrum_

    You believe in zero boundaries for socialism and I believe in zero socialism_

    This poll/thread is about priorities and compromise__Give a little, take a little_

    If you understand the concept of priorities and compromise, this should be no problem.

    Keep in mind, this is for discussion purposes only and unless people wise up, not likely to happen.
    Whats the problem with having all of those? If you have all of those you still will not be considered socialist... Youll just be a mixed market economy like today...


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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    (1) Universal Healthcare
    (2) Education/K-12 + 4 years higher-ed
    (3) Emergency & unemployment benefits
    (4) Social Security retirement/senior citizens
    (5) Disability services/benefits
    (6) Veterans services/benefits
    (7) Planned Parenthood services
    (8) Arts&Entertainment/PBS
    (9) Emergency corporate/economy bailouts
    (10) Illegal Alien assistance programs
    (programs for american citizens only with the exception of #10)
    1. No deal, the problem for health care is too complicated for government to handle fairly at the Federal level. For those in Europe who have a UHC imagine if it were Centralized at the EU level as a One Size Fits All plan. At the State level I would say yes but I am still against it.

    2. No, the education of K-12 should remain with the States for funding and should not be run by them. The Federal government should not be involved. With respect to the College level the Federal could do funding but it should be based on what the country needs (policy centered) such as engineers and scientists, and medical doctors; not lawyers, English language teachers, and Basket-weavers.

    3. Best handled at the State level.

    4. Should be eliminated. Let people invest it in retirement accounts if necessary, a proportion of wages/salaries can be required but this should be free market.

    5. State level still.

    6. I assume this is a contract between an Inductee and the Federal government and is with in the preview of the Federal Government. I also believe that when possible the veterans should be able to go to non-government facilities given the history of the inadequacies that the federal run ones have had in the past.

    7. The federal government should not be supporting the termination of life even if the life of the unborn is not recognized as a person this sets a precedent that it could support termination of life elsewhere.


    8. The Federal government can commission works of Art, but that is not what generally implied. Allowing the government to have its own network broadcast to the public is a bad idea it might encourage expansion to exiting ones (not that would change much now).

    9. Government should not bailout businesses at all.

    10. Federal government must not. The State government should not. The only assistance should be feeding them when they are waiting to be expelled from the USA while in custody.

    The end result: 2. (College level and by carrier need.) 6. Appropriate State function with contract law. 8. Limited to specific Commissions.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    I guess the idea of only choosing 3 is to let the others fall by the wayside.
    No, the idea of choosing only 3 is not to "let the others fall by the wayside"__It is about priorities_

    The US is currently 16 trillion dollars in the red and still borrowing money to pay the bills.

    We are fast approaching the event horizon of a catastrophic financial collapse, without a plan.

    U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

    It's not going to happen. I chose 8. Restricted multiple choice is fascism.
    And this is the problem_

    No, it's not "fascism", it's about the survival of a nation and a dream_

    Do you work?__Do you spend more money than you earn every month?

    Do you then swipe your credit card to continue living beyond your paycheck?

    If so, your lifestyle is unsustainable and you too are facing total financial collapse_

    Wake-up!__This is the real world__There is no debt fairy__We must fix this ourselves.
    When a crime is ignored ~ it becomes flagrant;
    When a crime is rewarded ~ it becomes epidemic:

    No Amnesty No Exception

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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick2253 View Post
    This is exactly the same line of thought that brought us Communism. And you're right, if we could provide all those services, it would be in the best interest of mankind. The problem is that these services have an opportunity cost. As soon as you start paying government for a service, you have less money to pay the private sector for a service. History has shown that, time and time again, the private sector is a much more efficient steward of our money, and so by pushing services away from the private sector onto the government (while you may get more coverage), you get far less bang for your buck.
    Actually, Im pretty sure the line of thought that brought us communism was actually related to means of production, ownership of capital and social anomie. Dont let your ignorance top you though.

    Veiled insults don't really help your cause.
    Do you deny people who think charity and empathy lead to holocaust exist? If you dont, then its not an insult.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    People are against them because we have to pay for it. Those things as you've mentioned are in our best interest, but is that at the expense of higher taxes, more government power and government spending?

    Many of these things should be personal responsibility and not government areas of power.
    Whether youre against it because you have to pay for it, or against it because of government spending, youre still against it. Now, I myself find that if a government is elected to maintain the welfare of a people, then it is definitely its goal to ensure that the society which elected it to govern, is well maintain. Taxation is a pretty low price to pay for a well maintained society.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick2253 View Post
    I like where this is going. However, I will complain that your list lacks roads and infrastructure, and that your list also fails to distinguish between government-guided programs, and government-run programs.

    For example, I think that government should provide funding for K-12 education. But I don't think it should run education. I'm in favor of a voucher system. Also, I think that government should be in the business of helping the disabled and retired, but it shouldn't be through a single government program. Chile's social security comes to mind as a favorable alternative.

    In these cases, it's possible to make the distinction between "Socialism" as a nationalization of certain services, or "Socialism" as government involvement in certain services. A capitalistic society can benefit from combinations of each. For example, having the state provide police and fire services, and paying for infrastructure development, and the state guiding privately run/managed social security.
    This is a very good point.

    Just because something is a government program doesn't mean it's a socialist program. Many government programs are done by providing contracts to private businesses to fulfill them. Which means those businesses profit.

    So I think that what matters less than the number of socialist programs is the degree of socialist those government programs are.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    No, the idea of choosing only 3 is not to "let the others fall by the wayside"__It is about priorities_

    The US is currently 16 trillion dollars in the red and still borrowing money to pay the bills.

    We are fast approaching the event horizon of a catastrophic financial collapse, without a plan.

    U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

    And this is the problem_

    No, it's not "fascism", it's about the survival of a nation and a dream_

    Do you work?__Do you spend more money than you earn every month?

    Do you then swipe your credit card to continue living beyond your paycheck?

    If so, your lifestyle is unsustainable and you too are facing total financial collapse_

    Wake-up!__This is the real world__There is no debt fairy__We must fix this ourselves.
    Except cutting spending isn't the only thing worth doing.

    Raising revenue to pay for it also needs to be done. So does evening out the tax system so there's less exemptions.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  9. #39
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    No, the idea of choosing only 3 is not to "let the others fall by the wayside"__It is about priorities_

    The US is currently 16 trillion dollars in the red and still borrowing money to pay the bills.

    We are fast approaching the event horizon of a catastrophic financial collapse, without a plan.

    U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

    And this is the problem_
    This meme that the National Debt is our largest problem is a fantasy. It's one of the primary concerns of the business class, that's what it's receiving so much attention, and all the talking heads are preaching this gospel, but it's really bull****. Simply allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire would clear up most of the deficit by 2015.

    (Fearing a soaring deficit, many analysts favor letting Bush tax cuts expire)

    Also; as economist dean Baker as observed, adopting a Universal Healthcare system, just like every other industrialized nation, would probably eliminate most of the deficit, it might even lead to a surplus. However; I doubt you'd ever cconsider either option, which reveals the true depth of your professed commitment to debt reduction.
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Empirica-

    I hear many folks make a great noise about our debt and it reaching some threshold number we are doomed...

    What number is that?

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