View Poll Results: Choose three social programs(3 only)

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  • Universal Healthcare

    15 62.50%
  • Education/k-12 + 4 years higher ed

    16 66.67%
  • Emergency welfare/medical/unemployment benefits

    9 37.50%
  • Social Security/medical for elderly/retired

    12 50.00%
  • Disability/medical services and benefits

    9 37.50%
  • Veterans/medical services and benefits

    10 41.67%
  • Planned Parenthood services

    5 20.83%
  • Arts&Entertainment/PBS funding

    4 16.67%
  • Emergency corporate/economy bailout fund

    4 16.67%
  • Illegal Alien emergency assistance and services

    1 4.17%
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Thread: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

  1. #11
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Personally I never understood the Capitalist vs Socialist debate, both systems will have the same inherent flaw that will cause neither to work within their idealist parameters. That flaw is human greed and corruption. When those empowered to regulate the system are more concerned with ways in which to manipulate the system for personal gain is it really going to matter which system we have?

    Capitalist system - Governing powers grant favors to businesses/wealthy groups in return for monetary/position gain.

    ><

    Socialist system - Governing powers grant favors to government powers/wealthy groups for monetary/position gain.


    While the people at the bottom suffer. We are simply shifting where persons can best exploit the system, the private sector or the public sector.

  2. #12
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I agree!

    I was wondering why she left out one of the basics and it's, more or less, right in the Constitution - roads.
    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Like a cancer.

    Public Education = cancer.

    Public Libraries?

    Public Parks?

    Public toilets?

    Public sidewalks?

    Public roads?

    Public air, water....

    I see.

    How about the police that patrol your neighborhood? Let's get rid of them.
    Police, Fire, military, highways, etc-etc-etc, are classified as "for the common good" and not considered socialist programs that benefit specific groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Well because roads are part of infrastructure and have nothing to with Socialism. Look the OP gave what definition that is being used for Socialism and its the Marxist on the way to Communism one.
    Thank you for paying attention FFAll_
    When a crime is ignored ~ it becomes flagrant;
    When a crime is rewarded ~ it becomes epidemic:

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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    You say you're against all socialist inroads but then want to limit it to 3? You really don't want disability services really? So should homeless kids and the deaf dumb and blind just starve to death or what? People who are laid off thru no fault of their own should starve? I happen to think a for-profit prison and health care system has been disastrous, but then so have K-12 public schools. I think the lesson is, whether public or private, what matters is how things are managed.

    Then some things on your list i'm not unopposed to removing entirely at least in theory, such as social security, but how would we ever get out of that quagmire? Too many rely on it, too many have put huge amounts of income into it. Even a phasing out would be difficult to do fairly. Planned parenthood i see as an investment if it results in fewer welfare and foster care. I dunno much about it though. The problem with bailouts is they don't attach strings like gutting the banks and banning credit-default swaps. They never addressed what led to the nightmare in the first place. They were just like "Here have some $ on the taxpayer and btw you don't need to give their house back." I'm not going to pick 3, i would never compromise that. What i find sane to cut:

    grade 6-12 public education (it's ****)
    i would shrink the military greatly so that would shrink VA
    #7 maybe i dunno
    #8
    #9
    #10 (i support immigrants coming here legally but not at expense of taxpayer)
    Last edited by wolv67; 05-07-12 at 11:18 PM.

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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Why can i only choose 3? What are any of these going to lead to if we have all of them?
    Because the objective is to find out what people's priorities are.
    When a crime is ignored ~ it becomes flagrant;
    When a crime is rewarded ~ it becomes epidemic:

    No Amnesty No Exception

  5. #15
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Eh,
    Probably the bottom three would be least harmful to society.

  6. #16
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    Personally I never understood the Capitalist vs Socialist debate, both systems will have the same inherent flaw that will cause neither to work within their idealist parameters. That flaw is human greed and corruption. When those empowered to regulate the system are more concerned with ways in which to manipulate the system for personal gain is it really going to matter which system we have?

    Capitalist system - Governing powers grant favors to businesses/wealthy groups in return for monetary/position gain.

    ><

    Socialist system - Governing powers grant favors to government powers/wealthy groups for monetary/position gain.


    While the people at the bottom suffer. We are simply shifting where persons can best exploit the system, the private sector or the public sector.
    I agree, but then I am not an American, and I have not grown up with the socialist bogey man. The concept of socialism is not confined to, nor does it necessarily lead to, the politico-economic system of Marxism.

    Engels was more moderate in stating: "Modern Socialism is, in its essence, the direct product of the recognition, on the one hand, of the class antagonisms existing in the society of today between proprietors and non-proprietors, between capitalists and wage-workers; on the other hand, of the anarchy existing in production."

    But there is another concept of socialism, and that is concerned with social justice. It is not analogous to, but not completely unrelated to, the social contract. It is in fact employed, to a lesser or greater extent, by every modern, developed society on earth. It is characterised by systems such as unemployment benefits, taxation funded education, and taxation funded health care, amongst many others. In fact any collective enterprise on behalf of society is a form of socialism.

    This form of socialism, which I will refer to as 'social justice', ensures that all citizens, irrespective of family status or economic advantage, are granted equal opportunities at the most elementary level. And relative freedom from poverty, hunger, lack of education, and lack of health care. I cannot think of a single sane person who would not consider that a desirable outcome.

    Therefore, there are forms of socialism which do not inevitably lead to the Gulags, governmental corruption, and dictatorship. A balance of free enterprise capitalism and social justice is already employed by the world's most successful societies - it is only a matter of striking the right balance.
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    We need all of those things. All of them are very important in their own way.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

  8. #18
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    Because the objective is to find out what people's priorities are.
    All of those are very very important priorities


  9. #19
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Well because roads are part of infrastructure and have nothing to with Socialism. Look the OP gave what definition that is being used for Socialism and its the Marxist on the way to Communism one.
    Why do roads and infrastructure have nothing to do with Socialism? The logic for nationalizing the construction and management of infrastructure is exactly the same for all the other things on that list, and they just as similarly serve a social function. The idea in all of these cases is that nationalizing service X changes the distribution of service X from one that favors the individual to one that favors the greater good. Roads and infrastructure as we deal with them in this country seem to serve exactly that purpose: instead of only benefiting those with the ability to pay, they benefit all at the cost of those with the ability to pay.

  10. #20
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    Re: Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Well because roads are part of infrastructure and have nothing to with Socialism. Look the OP gave what definition that is being used for Socialism and its the Marxist on the way to Communism one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    Police, Fire, military, highways, etc-etc-etc, are classified as "for the common good" and not considered socialist programs that benefit specific groups.


    I notice you both left the moderator out. LOL!
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