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Thread: Politics and people

  1. #21
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    Re: Politics and people

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Behavior economics homey.

    Opens the world of soft incentives to get people to act/be better.

    Well, tbh I'm rather ambivalent about the idea of government deciding what people should be doing (apart from not committing crimes) and then structuring economic incentives/disincentives in such as way as to "push", ahem I mean encourage, wink nudge, them in that direction.

    There's already quite a bit of that in the tax code.... one of the reasons it is so complex.

    If our goverrnment acted like it knew its ass from a donkey, I might not be so ambivalent.... as it is.... well....

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  2. #22
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    Re: Politics and people

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Well, tbh I'm rather ambivalent about the idea of government deciding what people should be doing (apart from not committing crimes) and then structuring economic incentives/disincentives in such as way as to "push", ahem I mean encourage, wink nudge, them in that direction.

    There's already quite a bit of that in the tax code.... one of the reasons it is so complex.

    If our goverrnment acted like it knew its ass from a donkey, I might not be so ambivalent.... as it is.... well....
    I tend to think that this is a result from the voters not knowing their asses from donkeys as well.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Politics and people

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Well, tbh I'm rather ambivalent about the idea of government deciding what people should be doing (apart from not committing crimes) and then structuring economic incentives/disincentives in such as way as to "push", ahem I mean encourage, wink nudge, them in that direction.

    There's already quite a bit of that in the tax code.... one of the reasons it is so complex.

    If our goverrnment acted like it knew its ass from a donkey, I might not be so ambivalent.... as it is.... well....
    That is true.
    It doesn't necessarily have to be legislation.

    I was actually reading about something yesterday, that was done by a private bank in South Africa.
    They wanted to get more customers, from the large, generally unbanked black population.
    Pretty cool story, the ending sucks though because the government closed it down.

    Freakonomics » Lottery Loopholes and Deadly Doctors: A New Freakonomics Radio Podcast

    Transcript is available at the bottom of the page, before the comments section.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #24
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    Re: Politics and people

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I tend to think that this is a result from the voters not knowing their asses from donkeys as well.


    That point is well made and hard to argue with.... and one of the reasons I am sometimes ambivalent about universal sufferage, as opposed to "earned sufferage".

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  5. #25
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    Re: Politics and people

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That is true.
    It doesn't necessarily have to be legislation.

    I was actually reading about something yesterday, that was done by a private bank in South Africa.
    They wanted to get more customers, from the large, generally unbanked black population.
    Pretty cool story, the ending sucks though because the government closed it down.

    Freakonomics » Lottery Loopholes and Deadly Doctors: A New Freakonomics Radio Podcast

    Transcript is available at the bottom of the page, before the comments section.

    I see... interesting. I have no objection to purely-voluntary incentives.... but the gov rarely does anything that is purely voluntary (ie if you don't do it their way you pay higher taxes... I dont consider that purely voluntary).

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  6. #26
    Doesn't go below juicy
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    Re: Politics and people

    Oh and here's a random picture of a crying cat


  7. #27
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    Re: Politics and people

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I'm not sure. I think my question has more to do with how much one is an optimist. For example proponents of the 401k program thought they would be helping people be in control of their money and move them towards responsibility and we are about to have a ****ton of people retire without savings, which is going to put a huge burden on everyone.

    So the question is, was this a social engineering failure based on the idea that people would change in response to a new law?

    There are countless examples of this, but the 401k one was just on the radio.
    I am 66, wife is 65, we retired well even tho we grew up poor, started with very little between us....We know a lot of people in our age group who did not save, did not prepare, many who had a better start than us, and they are still working if they can, or just not enjoying their low income retirement. Most don't even own a home, still have a mortgage. They did live well while working, tho.
    Somehow they got the idea that there is govt gold at the end of the rainbow, that Uncle Sam would increase SS so that it becomes a livable income. Surprise, Surprise, Surprise......as Gomer would say....
    I hope their children and grandchildren take note, and adjust their retirement plans accordingly....
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  8. #28
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    Re: Politics and people

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I guess this question is a fail then.
    Actually I think this is a pretty good one - it has often been a back-of-my-mind critique of those I am arguing with that they seem to be assuming that the current set of parameters is somehow set into reality by an unbreakable force. I can't think how many times I've gone off on rants about dynamic v static scoring.

  9. #29
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    Re: Politics and people

    I support policies that would encourage certain behaviours.

    For social policies I dislike and would never support forced individual actions, or policies that prevent certain actions (non harmfull to others)

    So, I do support "sin" taxes, tax policies that encourage people to save money for retirement, etc. It does to an extent from the basis of my politics

    So I would not support banning alcohol, sugar, salt or harder drugs, but would support regulation and taxation to discourage excess use.
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  10. #30
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    Re: Politics and people

    Definitely where people are at.

    Getting people to go in a particular direction is harder than herding cats.

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