View Poll Results: Pro-Lifers: what else do you support?

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  • Against the death penalty.

    12 63.16%
  • Against wars other than wars of pure self-defense.

    13 68.42%
  • Support government helping the weakest amoung us with food, housing, & healthcare.

    11 57.89%
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Thread: Pro-Lifers poll

  1. #21
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    Re: Pro-Lifers poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Your attempt to show hypocrisy is going to fail, since each and every one of those is entirely different than abortion. If you cannot debate abortion issues on their own merits, you probably just should not debate abortion issues.
    This doesn't make any sense.

    Issues are subsets of ideology. If you don't have ideology, you shouldn't debate at all.

    Otherwise, you'd be contextually prejudiced. What good does that do? Situational ethics don't offer any insight for future issues yet to exist.

    If this is your honest opinion, I don't see the difference between you and a computer. You're just... programmed by history.

  2. #22
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    Re: Pro-Lifers poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Very simply question for Pro-Lifers:

    are you also against the death penalty, wars other than wars of pure self-defense, and do you support the government using all of its resources to help the weakest amoung us?
    I guess this is why I don't identify as pro-life.

    Pro-honor is better. The death penalty applies to honor those heinously violated; preemptive wars apply to dishonorable cultures that influence your own; and a welfare state dishonors moral hazard, principal-agent conflict, and freedom of assembly.

  3. #23
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    Re: Pro-Lifers poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Very simply question for Pro-Lifers:

    are you also against the death penalty, wars other than wars of pure self-defense, and do you support the government using all of its resources to help the weakest amoung us?
    None of those things do not have **** to do with the pro-life movement. It amazes me that when ever some lib-tard tries to tie in war, death penalty and public assistance to the pro-life movement that no pro-lifer tries to tie in 2nd amendment rights, school vouchers, marijuana or anything else to those labeling themselves pro choice.

    Pro-life | Define Pro-life at Dictionary.com
    opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  4. #24
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    Re: Pro-Lifers poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Very simply question for Pro-Lifers:

    are you also against the death penalty, wars other than wars of pure self-defense, and do you support the government using all of its resources to help the weakest amoung us?
    There's a better question to ask based on the view point of Pro-Lifers and trying to find an analog in terms of it being non-hypocritical.

    Do they support the State stepping in and taking a child away if a parent is found to be severely abusive up to and including the point where they are doing mortal harm?

    The generalized arugment of a pro-lifer is that the unborn child is just that....a child. As such, the mother (or father) has no more right to terminate its life due to their responsabilities associated with the creation of said child at the point that it's inside then they have when it's alive and having to be housed/fed in a different manner. Essentially, a child is protected under the law from harm and the state has the power to put forward such protection, even against the parents wishes.

    As such, lets compare that reasoning to the things you asked:

    Death Penalty ... The individual being killed has been given a, theoritically, fair trial by a jury of his peers and has been found to be guilty of such a henious crime that it is allowable under the law to be punishable by death. A fact that the perpetrator would be, or easily could've made themselves, aware of prior to committing their act. In this case, there is no necessity nor reason that the state should act to defend the individual from death.

    Against wars other than self defense ... First, you run into a "HUGE" ball of wax with "self defense" in terms of warfare terminology. It can be argued that something like the Iraq was was a war of "self defense". You could actually mean not engaging in wars unless we have been physically attacked first...but again, that grows issues such as "what about our allies being attacked"? Think WWI. Second, you still run into an issue where there's less belief that the United States government needs to actively work to protect everyone else in the world. IE, you're not seeing most Pro-Lifer's argue that we need to say...go to France and forcefully stop women from having abortions.

    Government welfare .... Again, not an analog in the least. While we can argue to the extent that it is constitutionally mandated that the government help those who are poor off in this country, the burden and extent that the government protects children from people trying to kill them is not nearly on par with that to automatically provide "Food, housing, and health care".

    It is quite simple and easy to remain ideologiclaly consistent with being "pro-life" in terms of abortion and against those things you stated.

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    Re: Pro-Lifers poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    There's a better question to ask based on the view point of Pro-Lifers and trying to find an analog in terms of it being non-hypocritical.

    Do they support the State stepping in and taking a child away if a parent is found to be severely abusive up to and including the point where they are doing mortal harm?....
    or even better, do they support the State taking a way a child if the parent is smoking around the kid? do they believe in criminal penalties for a pregnant mother who smokes or drinks?

    if a ZEF is indeed a person under their argument, and should be protected by the law like any other child, should they not be protected from alcohol & tobacco poisoning?

  6. #26
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    Re: Pro-Lifers poll

    1. For the death penalty.....These people commit horrific crimes against society and deserve to die.

    2. For Wars that are justified like WW2 and if we enter a war win it.....Don't cut and run like the left wanted to do in Nam.

    3. Support limited welfare that is closely monitored and checked but not a socialist welfare state like Hussein Obama wants
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  7. #27
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    Re: Pro-Lifers poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    2. For Wars that are justified like WW2 and if we enter a war win it.....Don't cut and run like the left wanted to do in Nam.
    But Nam wasn't justified. It was cleaning up France's mess and nothing more. So doesn't that not meet your own qualifications? If a war is not justified, can we cut and run?
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    Re: Pro-Lifers poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But Nam wasn't justified. It was cleaning up France's mess and nothing more. So doesn't that not meet your own qualifications? If a war is not justified, can we cut and run?
    Look at Nam now in fact. Yes, it's a communist hell hole, but how does that negatively affect the US and our security? Our troops and citizens are much safer after leaving Nam than we ever were inside of Nam. There was no rational point behind the war in my opinion.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Pro-Lifers poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But Nam wasn't justified. It was cleaning up France's mess and nothing more. So doesn't that not meet your own qualifications? If a war is not justified, can we cut and run?
    Did I say Nam was justified? I believe I said WW2. My point on Nam was if you enter the war win it........58,000 men died for nothing including a couple of my best friends........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Pro-Lifers poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    or even better, do they support the State taking a way a child if the parent is smoking around the kid?
    Are there many pro-lifers in favor of state intervention for smoking pregnant ladies? I've not really heard that...

    Though yes...I have heard people before being in favor of child services potentially being called during the height of the "Second hand smoke" freak out.

    do they believe in criminal penalties for a pregnant mother who smokes or drinks?
    See above, though I note you only ask smoking in case one but add drinking here. I would imagine if one drank enough to concievably significantly harm and potentially kill the baby that people would have issues with it (if that's even possible)...but I imagine the same would be true if you were forcing your 8 year old to beer-bong Jack Daniels until they get alcohol poisoning.

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