View Poll Results: Do you think Obama takes to much credit for killing Bin Laden?

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    16 27.12%
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    43 72.88%
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Thread: Do you think Obama takes to much credit for the killing of Bin Laden?

  1. #41
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    Re: Do you think Obama takes to much credit for the killing of Bin Laden?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    President Obama may have gotten OBL, but he also surrendered to the terrorists in Iraq.
    You would have to explain that one to me. Terrorists don't have Iraq. Iraq is in the midst of tribal rivalry all claiming to be the rightful rulers of Baghdad. No matter when we left, Iraq was always going to have to settle this on their own, just like every nation on earth has had to do. Even Europe's history is one of tribal sorting and cleansing until they agreed upon the population composition within their borders and what was both World Wars but a local civil war between their tribes?
    Last edited by MSgt; 05-05-12 at 03:19 PM.

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  2. #42
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    Re: Do you think Obama takes to much credit for the killing of Bin Laden?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Pakistan, like so many belligerents, receives a paycheck. In other words they are on payroll. If it failed they would have still had to answer (or not answer as the case is) to the fact that we had to seek him out within their borders anyway. There wouldn't have been anymore backlash than there was.
    I agree. Screw em anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Republicans don't give him a pass either way. Clinton is blasted for bombing "empty aspirin warehouses." You think Obama wouldn't have been blasted for not going after Osama Bin Laden after having his exact position pin pointed? He didn't make a decision. He simply did the only thing politically possible. And if he failed, despite the Republican exploitation, he would be on record for continuing the search and the fact is that it would have been the military that failed, just like under Carter. This is exactly what Democrats would be arguing and they would be right because Obama, nor Carter, was on a helicopter. Anymore than Obama was behind the sniper rifle that freed the hostage taken by Somali pirates. So what was the risk again?
    You think it was the only politically possible thing to do. Saying no to the mission was the other political option in my mind. No mission, no chance of failure, no Jimmy Carter like perceptions or comparisons. Truly Sarge, I do not think there are any folks I know that blame or blamed the military for Carter's perceived failure. If anything, they blamed Carter for not having our military and its equipment up to snuff.

    I hate to disagree with you on this because I agree with so much more that you write in the year 2012. I understand your argument, but my memory tells me failure would have been so politically disastrous for Obama here at home, a second term would have been almost impossible.

  3. #43
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    Re: Do you think Obama takes to much credit for the killing of Bin Laden?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiavoTheMiavo View Post

    You think it was the only politically possible thing to do. Saying no to the mission was the other political option in my mind. No mission, no chance of failure, no Jimmy Carter like perceptions or comparisons. Truly Sarge, I do not think there are any folks I know that blame or blamed the military for Carter's perceived failure. If anything, they blamed Carter for not having our military and its equipment up to snuff.
    Once the politicians place success or failure in the hands of the military, the military owns the success or failure. There is no way Obama had an option here. If he had not given the green light, he would be blasted today as Pakistan harbored Osama Bin Laden. He would not be re-elected based on the fact that he hasn't done enough to get him. His only option was to give the green light. Military failure would have also been to his advantage, because it meant that he can make decisions. The military failure under Carter was not met with further decision making and that is why Carter was viewed as weak. He allowed the one attempt to define his efforts.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiavoTheMiavo View Post
    I hate to disagree with you on this because I agree with so much more that you write in the year 2012. I understand your argument, but my memory tells me failure would have been so politically disastrous for Obama here at home, a second term would have been almost impossible.
    Only if he stopped the attempt. If Carter followed up the first attempt with another and actually freed the hostages, the first attempt would have been forgiven. Success is always forgiven.
    Last edited by MSgt; 05-05-12 at 04:11 PM.

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  4. #44
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    Re: Do you think Obama takes to much credit for the killing of Bin Laden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    It sure does. It means he called for action on a plan given to him by the military and carried out by the military. Being the ok guy that does nothing else doesn't deserve much credit.
    Just like any other CEO in the world it's all about who you hire, who you fire, who you listen to, and what plans you OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Oh please, everything a president does could risk him his job and the opponents could have fun with it. I grow tired of Obama supporters thinking this is actually new.
    It's not new - and it wasn't new ten years ago when Republicans did the same with GWB. It didn't stop them then, either, it's just how the Game is played.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Do you think Obama takes to much credit for the killing of Bin Laden?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Once the politicians place success or failure in the hands of the military, the military owns the success or failure. There is no way Obama had an option here. If he had not given the green light, he would be blasted today as Pakistan harbored Osama Bin Laden. He would not be re-elected based on the fact that he hasn't done enough to get him. His only option was to give the green light. Military failure would have also been to his advantage. The military failure under Carter was not met with further decision making and that is why Carter was viewed as weak. He allowed the one attempt to define his efforts.
    I agree 100% if . . . and that is a BIG IF, a story leaked to the media that he passed on a 100% for sure chance to kill Bin Laden because he was afraid of violating Pakistan's sovereignty. Then he'd be one and done . . . no doubt. However, we will never know had he passed on this mission, which by all accounts had no more than a 50/50 chance of finding Bin Laden there in the first place . . . if it would ever have seen the light of day. He did not have to green light this at all, and probably would not be blamed if he had waited for further information before acting. With only a 50% chance of being right, even if it leaked, I would think he would have been safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Only if he stopped the attempt. If Carter followed up the first attempt with another and actually freed the hostages, the first attempt would have been forgiven. Success is always forgiven.
    Man, I don't know . . . you are absolutely right that had he tried again and succeeded he would have been forgiven, but maybe there wasn't enough time left in his term to get it done. Or maybe he was just too scared in a political way . . . I don't know. Some might argue one good thing came out of that failure; some may say it was catalyst for the birth of the modern special warfare units of today.
    Last edited by Davo The Mavo; 05-05-12 at 04:38 PM.

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    Re: Do you think Obama takes to much credit for the killing of Bin Laden?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiavoTheMiavo View Post
    Man, I don't know . . . you are absolutely right that had he tried again and succeeded he would have been forgiven, but maybe there wasn't enough time left in his term to get it done. Or maybe he was just too scared in a political way . . . I don't know. Some might argue one good thing came out of that failure; some may say it was catalyst for the birth of the modern special warfare units of today.
    Carter was and is of the belief that if one sacrifices some conviction and relies on the graces of another, that all will turn out for the best. After the fiasco he relied upon Iran to simply do the right thing and free them. His ultimate problem is that he will compromise even as the other side takes advantage and offers none. His self-appointed status as a "peace maker" is what motivates him.

    Besides that, has Obama ever really taken credit beyond making the decision? Hasn't he mostly be quiet on the matter whle his political cronies have paraded it around?
    Last edited by MSgt; 05-05-12 at 05:16 PM.

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    Re: Do you think Obama takes to much credit for the killing of Bin Laden?

    You're right.

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    Re: Do you think Obama takes to much credit for the killing of Bin Laden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    well GWB didn't do it when he got Hussein Obama, whoops I mean Saddam Hussein.........I sure get those 2 mixed up.
    It would be an all out frontal assault on common sense to conclude that Saddam, relative to what the Bush Administration declared as the real threat to U.S. security, was somehow on par with Osama.

    Neocons, were (and still are) a far bigger threat to U.S. security than any number of Osama/Saddam combinations anywhere in the world. The problem in our country is that there are too few people, genuinely educated on matters related to U.S. Foreign Policy and the strange bed-fellows that are a direct result of decades of misguided individuals in both out official government, as well as the unofficial shadow-government that runs Washington, without approval from the electorate.

    Until you develop an understanding of that, you will always be a bit "mixed up."

  9. #49
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    Re: Do you think Obama takes to much credit for the killing of Bin Laden?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    if he doesnt give the order, the operation doesnt happen...so the order does mean something...Obama put his Presidency at stake, he took a real risk giving the go ahead, knowing full well that if it failed, the right would use it as a hammer on him.
    Well, its just not order he gave, the fact is that created the conditions that made it possible to get bin Laden. First he made a campaign promise to get him even if he had to go in Pakistan in a debate with John McCain Sept 2008. Then:

    Quote Originally Posted by USA Today
    It turns out that June 2, 2009, was an even busier day for President Obama than we thought.

    We knew that on that day, Obama held a health care meeting with congressional Democrats, nominated John McHugh to be Army secretary, and signed the Ronald Reagan Centennial Commission. That night, he took off to begin a Middle East trip in Saudi Arabia.

    Now we learn that, somewhere in the middle of all that, Obama signed the order that led to the Sunday raid that killed 9/11 organizer Osama bin Laden.

    According to a White House timeline, Obama signed a memo on June 2, 2009, telling CIA Director Leon Panetta that, "in order to ensure that we have expanded every effort, I direct you to provide me within 30 days a detailed operation plan for locating and bringing to justice Osama bin Laden."

    Obama's bin Laden operation began on June 2, 2009


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    Re: Do you think Obama takes to much credit for the killing of Bin Laden?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    So when you guys aren't bashing Bush you're bashing Cheney?
    Hard of reading eh?

    I'm pointing out that Navy Pride is a giant hypocrite.

    And do you reject that Cheney said that? You might want to check Google before responding.
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