View Poll Results: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

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  • Yes, no doubt

    19 31.67%
  • Kind of

    17 28.33%
  • I don't know

    0 0%
  • Not really

    17 28.33%
  • No, not at all

    6 10.00%
  • I don't care

    1 1.67%
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Thread: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

  1. #181
    Student Bleeding Head Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Part of it is private and part is public. I'm on the public part. The source sediment is on private property it's not clear yet where the creek becomes public.
    Then you have no property rights to defend and your sole option is to lobby government for relief. Good luck.

  2. #182
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Far too many folks on the libertarian right use the words LIBERTY and FREEDOM as hollow cliches designed as catch-alls to simply cover their asses while being as vague and unspecific as possible.
    I disagree. I think that many libertarians use the words liberty and freedom to describe a condition in which a person's ownership rights in his own body and his legitimate material property are not invaded.

    Authoritarians hate the concept of liberty, as their goal is to invade the property rights of others in order to impose their hegemony and rule over others. They denigrate liberty and those who wish to preserve it. The very idea of liberty is an obstacle to their plans to subjugate their fellow man.

  3. #183
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    People saying "no" or "kind of" have never traveled outside the U.S.

    They have nothing to compare the U.S. to.

  4. #184
    Professor

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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleeding Head Ken View Post
    Then you have no property rights to defend and your sole option is to lobby government for relief. Good luck.
    And if I was on the private portion of the creek?

  5. #185
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    People saying "no" or "kind of" have never traveled outside the U.S.

    They have nothing to compare the U.S. to.
    I was in the Navy for 6 years. 4 of them aboard Aircraft Carriers. I done 2 med cruises and one year spent two months stateside. Trust me I have seen other countries. The fact that we are free-er then them doesn't make us the land of the free. It just makes us not as oppressed or oppressed differently. Would you work from January to April without pay as long as they paid you the rest of the year?
    From the ashes.

  6. #186
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    People saying "no" or "kind of" have never traveled outside the U.S.

    They have nothing to compare the U.S. to.
    Why does it matter - in comparison to other countries?

    Isn't it a lack of knowledge per *our* nation's history and awareness of our changes?
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

  7. #187
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    People saying "no" or "kind of" have never traveled outside the U.S.

    They have nothing to compare the U.S. to.
    you made the same stupid straw man argument as Navy Pride. this thread doesn't ask if we are the best nation on Earth to live in, it is if we are actually the land of the free

  8. #188
    Student Bleeding Head Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    And if I was on the private portion of the creek?
    Then youvwould have a civil case and could sue the person violating your property for relief and restitution. If government is the polluter then you still can seek redress.

  9. #189
    Student Bleeding Head Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    People saying "no" or "kind of" have never traveled outside the U.S.

    They have nothing to compare the U.S. to.
    Soke of us have lived in other countries where there are no molestations by government agents at airports. Where starting a business does bring in a host lf busybodies and extortionists with the force of law behind them. Where one can freely trade gooda without filling out piles of paperwork. Many countries have stricter laws than the US, but the enforcement is far less authoritarian.

  10. #190
    Sage

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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    It is a little odd to hear people speak of aircraft carriers and complaints of 3-4 months of taxes. Our nation isn't cheap to run. I suppose other nations lacking 13 battle carrier groups, the ability to deliver tons of bombs anywhere in the world, or field divisions of M1a battle tanks- they can be run on the cheap. For all some right wingers rant about no way the UN is EVER gonna tell us what we can and can't do...

    If we had split into two nations in 1861, decided not to build huge fleets and large modern aircraft, opted to rely on a citizen army that remains mostly in reserve until Congress calls it up...

    well then something like the UN just might be telling us exactly what to do.

    My rural county spends a lot of money maintaining our gravel roads, a rural school bus system, extended emergency services, and sheriff dept. That's not cheap either.

    So yes it is 'fun' to rant about taxes, who doesn't wish they were smaller but feeling free should mean a lot more than selfish reasons.

    Someone attempted to hold up the Federal Register and our Tax code as proof of the unsustainable burden on the poor much downtrodden business class. However as a farmer I have absolutely no need to know the regulations on Big Pharma or coal mining. No need to read the daily speeches or special days for the congress man's constituent. What I need to know is ranching. And I have a gubment office all too willing to help me understand if there are any changes to the rules.

    The tax code- again if I don't manage a mortgage house do I need to know their forms? Or a roofing company? How about a auto repair shop? No I don't I need to know a TINY fraction of the tax code, the part that applied to my type of agriculture.

    Radcen-
    I can relate a story of restricting parking in the streets surrounding Philly. The size of the street didn't change, the size of the city work trucks did. After a brutal snow and ice storm the cities couldn't plow the side streets because the big SUVs parked there took up too much room to allow the large city plows through. The smaller pick-up sized plows lacked the muscle to plow the ice and snow. Fire trucks and EMT 'buses' have grown as well.

    If I may offer you an out from the 'burden' of so much interference-

    Move out my way. I live 15 minutes from a bottle of milk or a newspaper, 30 minutes away from a hospital, no building codes (FYI the bank will kind of insist the house be up to code if they are going to loan on it), I can pee outside anytime I want. I have a 300 yard range, a pistol range and a feral hog feeder all in my front yard.

    Just have to live out past everyone at the end of a dirt road knowing full well no way no how any help will get to you or your kids in time.

    Not totally self reliant like Milton would have us all, but a tad more than the average 'Merican... and quite a lighter burden of regulation and services.

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