View Poll Results: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

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  • Yes, no doubt

    19 31.67%
  • Kind of

    17 28.33%
  • I don't know

    0 0%
  • Not really

    17 28.33%
  • No, not at all

    6 10.00%
  • I don't care

    1 1.67%
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Thread: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

  1. #171
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Yes, I'm seriously saying that. FYI, I'm very much aware of its dangers.
    Well I can only say that I disagree with you, and can see now way we could ever find common ground on this issue.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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  2. #172
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Well I can only say that I disagree with you, and can see now way we could ever find common ground on this issue.
    We never had a chance for that.

  3. #173
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Did I say it was? Nope.



    Sorry, but yes, I'm aware of this. I understand all to well that people serve their time and are still treated as criminals and people like you pretend its actually not about security at that point. Also, to tell me that future punishments is not force at all is ridiculous, btw.
    I don't think he is stating it isn't force. It's just not future punishment as you maintain. Generally these things (registering a sex offender for example, losing you license in addition to jail for a serious offense) are administered during sentencing. They are also known as a punishment for the given crime prior to a person committing the crime they chose to commit.
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  4. #174
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    I don't think he is stating it isn't force. It's just not future punishment as you maintain. Generally these things (registering a sex offender for example, losing you license in addition to jail for a serious offense) are administered during sentencing. They are also known as a punishment for the given crime prior to a person committing the crime they chose to commit.
    True, I didn't even think of that. Though the purpose of it remains the same.

  5. #175
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    True, I didn't even think of that. Though the purpose of it remains the same.
    It's the same purpose as all laws. To protect the rights of another person. If you haven't seen it you should search here for DUI. we had a nice discussion about whether DUI should be illegal as long as the offender doesn't cause any harm or damage to others. He's not infringing on anyone's right.....
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  6. #176
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I never said prison is the only way to punish an individual but only talked about prison and life sentences. My argument is about the idea about time served and making sure to not violate their freedoms any further after that point. Its very clear, is it not?
    your argument is based on the incorrect premise that jail time was the only punishment they receive. the punishment also includes things like loss of gun rights that continue after the incarceration portion of the punishment ended. voter



    And they served their time for their crime. We already went over this.
    the punishment involves more then the prison time.

  7. #177
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    I mostly agree we are still the land of the free. However I have a hard time saying it when I am forced to work for 3-4 months and give all the wages to the government. That really doesn't say "free" to me.
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  8. #178
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    What kind of problem is the sediment causing others?
    There are about 16 properties that are significantly affected due to sediment preventing access to the river via the creek. (Many other properties are affected but most don't know it yet.) Let me add another perverse detail, we and our neighbors were charged thousands for removal of sediment about 7 years ago, none of those charged were sources of sediment.
    We just looked it up. The total that was charged and paid by the owners of our property was $7152.18.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 05-04-12 at 07:38 PM.

  9. #179
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    When I read the answers to this sort of question I can't help but rephrase it as, "Do white fairly well off men feel we are still the best nation in terms of individual freedom?"

    Blacks, and women would say the good old days were not so good.


    People living in the territories may have had more personal freedom but also little if any say in national issues.

    Many cowtowns had severe firearm restrictions.

    Big companies ran roughshod over the legal but immigrant citizens. Big City politics was as rigged as a carnie 3 card monty game.

    Corporations may bemoan the EPA but I like clean water and no acid rain.

    I certainly don't like the so-called Patriot Act, but our history is littered with Alien and Sedition Acts along with suspending basic rights.

    I find the travel restriction to Cuba asinine.

    So I figure you have to be very selective in the points you make for or against the argument we have lost some of our freedoms to be overall less free.
    I've been pondering this post since I first saw it, and I have to say these are very good points, especially the first two sentences. To whites, things may seem more restrictive, to blacks, not so. Very good post.

    Anyway, a lot of what I base the question on is the chipping away at our freedoms a small piece at a time. Not just federal or state governments, which is in our face all the time, but local city and county governments as well. Seems like every time I turn around my city is passing a new ordinance (or three). And these ordinances never give anything back, they always take something away.

    For example, 5 years ago my city passed an ordinance outlawing parking on one side of the street in every new subdivision. The street widths haven't changed, just the restrictions. In a recent conversation with a councilman, he told me the city is drafting an ordinance to ban parking on one side of all existing residential streets in the city, the streets that weren't covered in the previous ordinance. Never mind that cars have parked just fine for the last 100+ years, no, this has only now become an issue.

    In and of itself, the parking thing isn't huge, but it is a small piece of a larger problem, and that is simple things we've been able to do... things that really aren't harming anybody... are being taken away from us piece by piece. Maybe it's just me, but I find this to be a disturbing trend.

    ETA: At what point do we consider everything pretty much done? When do we reach the point that it is a city's job to just maintain and stop with the new laws and restrictions?
    Last edited by radcen; 05-04-12 at 07:39 PM.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  10. #180
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    your argument is based on the incorrect premise that jail time was the only punishment they receive. the punishment also includes things like loss of gun rights that continue after the incarceration portion of the punishment ended. voter
    I didn't notice that is where you were going, sorry. I admitted just as much in response to Phoenix.


    the punishment involves more then the prison time.
    Yet, only the prison time has to deal with the crime that was committed while anything after deals with preventing it from happening again. Is that not obvious?
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-04-12 at 08:08 PM.

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