View Poll Results: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

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  • Yes, no doubt

    19 31.67%
  • Kind of

    17 28.33%
  • I don't know

    0 0%
  • Not really

    17 28.33%
  • No, not at all

    6 10.00%
  • I don't care

    1 1.67%
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Thread: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

  1. #151
    Sage

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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Bwahahaha. Progressives can’t even agree amongst themselves what constitutes a right because their notion of it is so convoluted and encompassing.
    You do realize that your post refuted absolutely nothing I wrote.

    I have told this board many times what a right is. A right is a freedom guaranteed and acknowledged by the government in the nation you live in.

    That is pretty clear.
    __________________________________________________ _
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  2. #152
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You do realize that your post refuted absolutely nothing I wrote.

    I have told this board many times what a right is. A right is a freedom guaranteed and acknowledged by the government in the nation you live in.

    That is pretty clear.
    yet many progressives disagree showing that your post refuted nothing I wrote.

  3. #153
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    If you are not in prison it is. The US has the highest per capita % of citizens in prisons in the world.

    While 1 out of every 142 Americans is now actually in prison, 1 out of every 32 of us is either in prison or on parole from prison, according to yet another report on Americans behaving badly from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
    This means that 6.7 million adult men and women -- about 3.1 percent of the total U.S. adult population -- are now very non-voluntary members of America's "correctional community."
    While 1 out of every 142 Americans is now actually in prison, 1 out of every 32 of us is either in prison or on parole from prison, according to yet another report on Americans behaving badly from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

  4. #154
    Student Bleeding Head Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    No, it is precisely the correct question for those of us who live in a real nation of 311 million people - each with their own rights and their own idea how to pursue them.

    Far too many folks on the libertarian right use the words LIBERTY and FREEDOM as hollow cliches designed as catch-alls to simply cover their asses while being as vague and unspecific as possible.
    Rights, to a libertarian, stem from self-ownership. It can be objectively determined if the actions of one party, including those acting on the authority of the state, intrudes on the rights of another party.

  5. #155
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So my first grader is in school on a day like today and its warm - over 80 degrees - and the windows are open for fresh air..... and two men want to engage in freedom of speech so they stand on the public sidewalk and begin a discussion which turns into a heated discussion in which lots of loud profanities and sexual terms and bantered back and forth and they sound clearly drifts into the classroom.

    The State guarantees my child the right to a public education. These men are interfering with it - not to mention exposing my child to all kinds of stuff I do not want them exposed to at the age of seven.

    So what do we do about that?
    Perhaps the teacher could go to the window and point out to the arguing men that they were standing in front of a school and suggest that they carry on their conversation elsewhere. If that doesn’t work, the teacher should close the windows until they have moved along. If the arguers insist on remaining in front of the school yelling obscenities, a judge would most likely find them guilty of a tort. If it were me arguing in front of the school, I’d move along when asked, rather than be sued by the parents of students.

    What about the medicine man who comes to town and rents space in a private parking lot and sets up shop out of the back of his truck selling miracle cures. I buy some since they come with all sorts of promises and guarantees and take it home to my sick wife. She takes it and dies having been poisoned by the contents.

    Please explain to me how a civil suit or a criminal prosecution brings my wife back from the dead and protects her rights?
    Laws can’t bring back the dead. They can only punish the perpetrator. Yet, we still have laws prohibiting murder.

    Certainly, the medicine man would be subject to both civil and criminal penalties for his negligent and fraudulent actions.

    You, however, were also an idiot for buying medicine from an unknown man selling out of the back of his truck.

  6. #156
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleeding Head Ken View Post
    Rights, to a libertarian, stem from self-ownership. It can be objectively determined if the actions of one party, including those acting on the authority of the state, intrudes on the rights of another party.
    I just sat down to lunch after finding what the new source of sediment is that is filling the creek we live on. I'll omit the many details and just keep it simple. So, without government regulations saying that you don't have the freedom to pollute the creek with sediment, how do you suggest I get them to stop doing it? Especially since it causes them no damage what so ever.

  7. #157
    Student Bleeding Head Ken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    I just sat down to lunch after finding what the new source of sediment is that is filling the creek we live on. I'll omit the many details and just keep it simple. So, without government regulations saying that you don't have the freedom to pollute the creek with sediment, how do you suggest I get them to stop doing it? Especially since it causes them no damage what so ever.
    Who owns the creek?

  8. #158
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Similarily I have no problems with restrictions to keep a pedophile from being around children.
    Yes the pedophiles freedoms are being curtailed but they have shown a propensity to take away others rights.To the above you answered:
    What you are forgetting is that a pedophile caught when you say our freedoms were greater would be zero risk to children in the future. (To be clear I guess I have to add: The pedophile would be dead. That is unless he was the leader of a group.)
    What? Sorry, I'm not following. Maybe I'm having a brain fart moment but what does "What you are forgetting is that a pedophile caught when you say our freedoms were greater would be zero risk to children in the future " mean? Just so that we are clear though, I think pedophiles are risks to children.

  9. #159
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    No I support freedom but when someone has demonstrated that they are not willing/able to respect other peoples freedom then they do not deserve the same amount of freedom as others.
    You don't seem to grasp that supporting freedom calls for respecting the freedoms of the innocent regardless of past offenses. Taking freedom away from people that are a risk is not upholding freedom. You can talk all day about potential harms and such and its still going to be a security argument, NOT a freedom argument.

    So you would defend the right of a pedophile with multiple convictions to run a daycare or be a grade 1 teacher?
    That isn't defending freedom that is insanity
    Yes, I would. That is upholding freedom. I don't get to pick and choose and still think I'm doing it, and I'm not dishonest enough to pretend I can.
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-04-12 at 05:06 PM.

  10. #160
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You don't seem to grasp that supporting freedom calls for respecting the freedoms of the innocent regardless of past offenses.
    Past offenses do not have to be ignored to support freedom. If you have past offenses, you aren’t innocent. Society found you guilty, and are allowing you to live out the remainder of your life with previously freedoms curtailed.

    It is still your actions that initiated this force against you however, so any claims of innocence are patently false.

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