View Poll Results: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

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  • Yes, no doubt

    19 31.67%
  • Kind of

    17 28.33%
  • I don't know

    0 0%
  • Not really

    17 28.33%
  • No, not at all

    6 10.00%
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    1 1.67%
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Thread: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

  1. #141
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    I see no indication that he thinks that way. He was not addressing the results of people that initiate force against others, such as pedophiles was he?

    The closest he broached this subject is in his reply to you saying the following If it is demonstrable that you pose a risk to use a gun in a way that would deny others their rights then I feel it is ok

    This is incredibly ambiguous. If you demonstrated in the past that you are prone to armed robbery, it is one thing, but if you demonstrated potential risk in the past based on an op-ed opinion in the local paper, that is another matter entirely.
    Yes he was.

    This was my original post he was replying to
    Yes some peoples views are bizzare, but if you look at each case then you can decide. Does owning a gun take away anothers rights? Nope. The use of the gun could take away rights, it could also defend them, depends on its use. Should mentally unstable or people with violent criminal histories be allowed guns? Here is a bit of grey spot, I would say yes (typo by me shoudl have been NO but that should be obvious from rest of text) because the likelyhood that they will use the gun to deny anothers rights is too large and the difference in what is taken away is huge, Ie one guy can't have a gun but another person could lose their life.
    I said demonstrable I do not think an op-ed demonstrates anything.
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  2. #142
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    This is a completely different issue. If a person violates someone else’s rights, they risk losing theirs.

    In the case of a pedophile, I subscribe to the notion that some people are born defective, and once they prove to the world they are defective in a form that is particularly harmful to those around them, they forever risk a loss of life and liberties.

    I would personally advocate the complete removal of them from society permanently, via execution. Others in society might show a little more compassion unfortunately.
    Its a sick society when its "unfortunate" to show compassion !
    And I question "born defective" ...
    If this is true, to an absolute...only a God should be allowed to do the execution of a potential pedophile.

  3. #143
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Its a sick society when its "unfortunate" to show compassion !
    Showing the wrong people compassion can be unfortunate.

    And I question "born defective" ...
    You question the term birth defects?

    If this is true, to an absolute...only a God should be allowed to do the execution of a potential pedophile.
    I don’t want a theocracy.

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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    I said demonstrable I do not think an op-ed demonstrates anything.

    Demonstrate - to make evident or establish by arguments or reasoning;

    So what you think doesn’t really matter, the English language matters. An op-ed can be termed as demonstrating something, it fits the definition perfectly.

  5. #145
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Demonstrate - to make evident or establish by arguments or reasoning;

    So what you think doesn’t really matter, the English language matters. An op-ed can be termed as demonstrating something, it fits the definition perfectly.
    I have no desire to argue semantics with you. I think my original post (despite the typo) was clear if you have a problem with that please state what it is. We basically seem to be thinking along similar lines, though I do not advocate the death penalty for predophiles
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    I have no desire to argue semantics with you. I think my original post (despite the typo) was clear if you have a problem with that please state what it is. We basically seem to be thinking along similar lines, though I do not advocate the death penalty for predophiles
    when you said you do not think an op-ed demonstrates anything, you initiated a semantic argument.

    If you don't want to do something, don't start doing it.

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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    when you said you do not think an op-ed demonstrates anything, you initiated a semantic argument.

    If you don't want to do something, don't start doing it.
    Sigh fine.
    If you had actually gone back and read my posts you would never had added the inane op-ed bit.
    Having said that, I will go along with the op-ed bit on this strange off topic aside we seem to be doing here.
    Hinting at something in an op-ed is not PROOF of anything. If however you make direct threats in an op-ed then yes it is demonstrating something and no you should not be allowed to have a gun. So I guess I would agree an Op-ed would/should prevent someone from owning a gun if they make a threat about using their 12 gauge to blow off someones head. They should then be checked out by police and possibly doctors. Seems to me very likely that someone who makes an op-ed like that would be unbstable. If they say something like I'll kick your ass then, no. I was assuming your reference to an op-ed was more the latter than the former. I would also assume that the former would likely not get printed, instead it would be sent to the police. Because I assumed (yes you can say that makes an ass of you and me) that an actual threat of death from a firearm would not get published in an op-ed and only obvious hyperbole would, I do not consider hyperbole it as demonstrable proof.
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  8. #148
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    After all this talk you have had with people on the term you're still asking the wrong questions? Really?
    No, it is precisely the correct question for those of us who live in a real nation of 311 million people - each with their own rights and their own idea how to pursue them.

    Far too many folks on the libertarian right use the words LIBERTY and FREEDOM as hollow cliches designed as catch-alls to simply cover their asses while being as vague and unspecific as possible.
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  9. #149
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    You mean when one person infringes on the freedom or property of another? Well that means that the former has committed either a crime or a tort against the latter, which would be cause for either criminal prosecution or a civil suit.
    Oh really!?!?!?!?!

    Like a persons right to freedom of speech - Congress shall make no law and all that.......

    So my first grader is in school on a day like today and its warm - over 80 degrees - and the windows are open for fresh air..... and two men want to engage in freedom of speech so they stand on the public sidewalk and begin a discussion which turns into a heated discussion in which lots of loud profanities and sexual terms and bantered back and forth and they sound clearly drifts into the classroom.

    The State guarantees my child the right to a public education. These men are interfering with it - not to mention exposing my child to all kinds of stuff I do not want them exposed to at the age of seven.

    So what do we do about that?

    What about the medicine man who comes to town and rents space in a private parking lot and sets up shop out of the back of his truck selling miracle cures. I buy some since they come with all sorts of promises and guarantees and take it home to my sick wife. She takes it and dies having been poisoned by the contents.

    Please explain to me how a civil suit or a criminal prosecution brings my wife back from the dead and protects her rights?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #150
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Far too many folks on the libertarian right use the words LIBERTY and FREEDOM as hollow cliches designed as catch-alls to simply cover their asses while being as vague and unspecific as possible.
    Bwahahaha. Progressives can’t even agree amongst themselves what constitutes a right because their notion of it is so convoluted and encompassing.

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