View Poll Results: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

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  • Yes, no doubt

    19 31.67%
  • Kind of

    17 28.33%
  • I don't know

    0 0%
  • Not really

    17 28.33%
  • No, not at all

    6 10.00%
  • I don't care

    1 1.67%
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Thread: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

  1. #121
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    If it is demonstrable that you pose a risk to use a gun in a way that would deny others their rights then I feel it is ok.
    So you are willing take freedom from people because of risk? Isn't that the whole safety over liberty argument?

    Similarily I have no problems with restrictions to keep a pedophile from being around children.
    Yes the pedophiles freedoms are being curtailed but they have shown a propensity to take away others rights.
    They have already been punished for that, have they not? Since no other actions have happened there is no warrant by the state to act further.

  2. #122
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    So you are willing take freedom from people because of risk? Isn't that the whole safety over liberty argument?
    Yes it is. If you have demonstrated that you are a danger then absolutely.

    hey have already been punished for that, have they not? Since no other actions have happened there is no warrant by the state to act further.
    The recividism rate among pedophiles is incredibly high which is why I used it as an example.
    CSOM Publications - Recidivism of Sex Offenders

    So yes when the chance of someone is going to remove anothers freedoms is so high then I have no problem with them losing some small amount of theirs.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Yes it is. If you have demonstrated that you are a danger then absolutely.


    The recividism rate among pedophiles is incredibly high which is why I used it as an example.
    CSOM Publications - Recidivism of Sex Offenders

    So yes when the chance of someone is going to remove anothers freedoms is so high then I have no problem with them losing some small amount of theirs.
    So then you support safety and only freedom when you wish to give it out? That is what I thought.

    I don't know why people that believe in safety talk of freedom, but do as you will.
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-04-12 at 07:13 AM.

  4. #124
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    To take any action one chooses so long as it doesn't infringe on the freedom or property of another person.
    Thats why there has to be leaders to WRITE laws restricting what one person can do to another...that is not restricting their freedom...its assuring FREEDOM FOR ALL...the weak included...
    I totally agree. We need to establish a social order that prevents anyone from infringing on the freedom or property of another person. However, while people in the government sometimes defend freedom and property, they also often infringe on freedom and property. Like most people, they are not wholly innocent nor wholly guilty.

    My aim is to modify the social order such that even those in the government are forbidden and prevented from infringing on the freedom and property of any individual.

  5. #125
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    To take any action one chooses so long as it doesn't infringe on the freedom or property of another person.
    And what happens when those freedoms clash?
    You mean when one person infringes on the freedom or property of another? Well that means that the former has committed either a crime or a tort against the latter, which would be cause for either criminal prosecution or a civil suit.

  6. #126
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    So then you support safety and only freedom when you wish to give it out? That is what I thought.

    I don't know why people that believe in safety talk of freedom, but do as you will.
    No I support freedom but when someone has demonstrated that they are not willing/able to respect other peoples freedom then they do not deserve the same amount of freedom as others.

    So you would defend the right of a pedophile with multiple convictions to run a daycare or be a grade 1 teacher?
    That isn't defending freedom that is insanity
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
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    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.
    Winston Churchill

  7. #127
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by AreteCourage View Post
    Relative to most countries we are very free. However, compare it to our own history we have lost quite a bit of freedom. I went with the "kind of" because we are for the most part free. However, go to the airport and see how free you are with the TSA. Go to Middleborugh, Massachusetts and drop an "F" bomb. (You'll get fined $20)

    Try to hold a protest around the president. Tell the people of Flint, Michigan they have a voice in their local government. (They do not because of Michigan's law of 'emergency managers' that can come in and take over a city indefinitely)

    At the same time...we can travel throughout the country at will. We have a voluntary military. We enjoy basic freedoms.
    I do not think that it is absolutely true that we have "lost" any freedoms...Man does not behave and deserves to "lose" freedoms. And its more than the criminal element - its those without respect for others, those who are insensitive.
    The TSA thing...this can be handled much better....we can learn from the Isrealis....so our attitude, our obtrusiveness cost us some freedoms..
    As to Flint, Michigan...I think this mess was caused by our refusal to keep pace with the world...the attitude thing again.
    It is so very true that freedom has its responsibilities..
    A primary responsibility is "telling the truth"...here we fall flat on our faces !
    The "F" bomb must be swearing in public.....
    Try that in the 1600s and you will be tortured...another one of man's problems ...he overreacts..

  8. #128
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Exactly. Still better than most, not as good as we used to be. The shining city on the hill has lost its sparkle.
    IMO, NO!
    It does not have to be this way....
    Unless we can continually upgrade our level of tolerance, we must lose "freedom" as our population explodes...."freedom" takes up space...
    We must learn to tolerate....to love our fellow man as taught by Jesus, otherwise the freedoms will be lost...forever.

  9. #129
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Wow I am shocked 10 people say not really.......It is obvious that they have not seen a lot of countries and the restrictions on freedom there they might change their mind.
    Realizing you don't answer my posts, I'll post this for others to consider:

    Tell us about freedom to have an abortion compared to other countries. Tell us about gay and lesbian rights and recognition in other countries. Tell about the ability of women to become the leader or president in other countries. How about little girls selling lemonade without getting busted by the cops in other countries? Tell us about the freedom to easily enter other countries on passports and visas. Tell us why more people in America are in prison that many other countries combined.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf



  10. #130
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    Re: Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

    So - if I follow you:

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Thats why I said...freedom is a perception...if you believe your free you are...Americans will never be happy...the only time they will say they are free if you give them whatever they want....and thats not going to happen...america is the freest of the free...and americans complain the most they arent free
    Freedom is perception.

    If we think we're free: we'll be free (because it's perception - and not a fact of a reality)

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I whine...I admit it....I whine about public workers getting shafted and I whine about working americans being SCREWED by the rich...and I truly believe that is exactly whats going on...so we can have a mutual whine fest over that subject...lol
    So - if you think you're being screwed by the rich - it's like a self fulfilling prophecy: you will be screwed by the rich. Since it's all perception: all you have to do is look at it another way - and suddenly you're not being screwed by the rich.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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