View Poll Results: Should employers be legally required to provide a reason for firing?

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  • Yes, Employers should not be allowed to fire for no reason

    20 42.55%
  • No, It's the employer's right to fire people.

    27 57.45%
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Thread: Should an employer be legally required to have a reason to fire an employee?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Racism against the rich? How bizarre.

    All employees should have elementary protection from being fired on a whim. Contrary to popular American rightwing dogma, it's not impossible to fire anyone in Europe, they just have to have done something to deserve it.


    "At will". See freedom is a bitch, if you do you job but are an asshole, you gots to go. Protection by the state keeps Europe in mediocrity.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Should an employer be legally required to have a reason to fire an employee?

    It's the employers job. It's his money.

    Fire at will, and quit at will - both should be decent enough to give two weeks notice / give a severance etc; but both must be left free actors.

  3. #63
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    Re: Should an employer be legally required to have a reason to fire an employee?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Y'all can be as incensed as you want about the "unfairness" of being fired "for no reason", but the bottom line is that unless termination procedures are documented in a contract or personnel manual, most businesses have the right to fire any employee for any reason... or even for no reason at all.

    If I'm the owner of a small business, I hire a kitchen worker who has a surly attitude, I'll fire his ass for the surly attitude. If he doesn't have a surly attitude, but talks non-stop and screws up kitchen communication, I'll fire his ass. If he just smirks and makes faces at people, I'll fire his ass. If I find out that I just don't like the guy, you bet your bongos I'll fire his ass for that, too.

    My company, my business, I can hire whomever I please for whatever reason I please, and I also fire whomever I please. I don't have a duty to employ you if I've decided you're not the person I want in that job. Employees don't run the company; the owner runs the company. Kick and scream and hold your breath until you turn blue at the "unfairness" of it all, it is still my company and my right to decide who does or doesn't work for me.

    (A pattern of long-term illegal descriminatory practices excepted, of course.)
    It's funny how other people try to tell you, how to run your business.
    Maybe they should be required to put their money on the line, before making decisions for you.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Should an employer be legally required to have a reason to fire an employee?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    "At will". See freedom is a bitch, if you do you job but are an asshole, you gots to go. Protection by the state keeps Europe in mediocrity.
    How do you do your job, if you're an asshole? America aspires to mediocrity. (see what I did then?)
    Last edited by Manc Skipper; 05-03-12 at 08:15 AM.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    How do you do your job, if you're an asshole? America aspires to mediocrity. (see what I did then?)


    Yes, you demonstrated mediocrity....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  6. #66
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    Re: Should an employer be legally required to have a reason to fire an employee?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It's the employers job. It's his money.

    Fire at will, and quit at will - both should be decent enough to give two weeks notice / give a severance etc; but both must be left free actors.
    That's a good point, I have had men quit with no notice and it really left me in a bind, this works both ways.

  7. #67
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    they should not have to have a reason beyond any agreement qith the employee.

    looking at France, it appears that being too restrictive about firing depresses hiring.

  8. #68
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    Re: Should an employer be legally required to have a reason to fire an employee?

    Unless there is a contract with stipulations in the private sector, then no. (public sector is different) However.... the terminated employee has a right to petition for a reason and if none is still given, then that cannot be used against them in any way with future employment. The employers who terminated without just cause must issue a statement that there was no just cause for termination. Empoyers must also be truthful about any causes. If an employee is terminated and not given a reason, the employer then cannot later give one.
    Last edited by 00timh; 05-03-12 at 10:49 AM.

  9. #69
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    Re: Should an employer be legally required to have a reason to fire an employee?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    We've had several discussions here about employees being sacked for various reasons. I am just curious how many here believe an employer should be legally required to have a reason to fire someone. I personally believe a person should be able to be fired without cause. Otherwise you grant an employee a right to the job provided by the employer. IMO that is a constitutional breach that grants one person greater protection from the law than the other.
    You set up the poll like the question is a clear absolute, one way or the other. The issue is not that way. There are some valid and enforceable reasons to prevent firing. I volunteered for a RIF, later I found that I was already on the RIF list. People were chosen for several reasons some were valid but a major one one was religion, in my opinion, invalid.

  10. #70
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    Re: Should an employer be legally required to have a reason to fire an employee?

    If we look at the question through the present legal filter, yes, in most cases the employer should not have to give the employee a (truthful) reason for firing the employee.

    But law is often tilted in the direction of the ideology in power at the time of enactment, and once enacted, takes more than just a pendulum-swing in power to reverse. And even if reversal occurs, does either/or simply because of who's in power make any liberty or justice sense as far as doing the right thing in the situation, especially if there might be a more complex right answer than the simple either-or from who's in power?

    For those of you who fully support the employer not having to give a truthful reason to the fired employee in most cases, according to law, would you still be citing the law as good if the law said the reverse?

    To me, the question isn't asking what the law states at present or even should state at present, from a political persuasion perspective.

    To me, the question is what is really the right thing to do in this situation by the parties involved?

    That's why I believe that the liberty and justice of neither party, the employer or the employee, should be infringed in the matter.

    At first glance, therefore, it appeared to me that the employee's justice was needlessly being infringed by not receiving a truthful reason, and that neither the employer's liberty or justice was being infringed by providing one.

    Thus I say the employer should be required to provide the employee a truthful reason for the firing, and that the law should be changed to reflect that.

    But maybe if I analyzed this more deeply, using the same liberty and justice for all criteria, my analysis might reveal a different, more complex answer to the question to insure the best possible outcome of maintaining an optimal balance of freedom and security for both parties.

    I guess what I'm saying is that the method we employ and the depth we pursue the analysis to decide the matter is really huge.

    It's less a question, perhaps, of which of the two poll-answers you would choose.

    And more a question of what method would you use to decide.

    I think that typically people use their particular political persuasion as an off-the-cuff response, as that's pretty easy to do.

    But I don't believe that really arrives at the right-thing-to-do answer as often as people might want to think.
    Last edited by Ontologuy; 05-03-12 at 12:00 PM.
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