View Poll Results: Would General Motors Be Alive Today Without Government Help?

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  • YES (please state how)

    9 31.03%
  • NO, the assets would be liquidated.

    20 68.97%
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Thread: Would General Motors Be Alive Today Without Government Help?

  1. #11
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    Re: Would General Motors Be Alive Today Without Government Help?

    I think the more pertinent question is:

    Why do we want GM to still be around if its only means of survival was a government bailout?

  2. #12
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    Re: Would General Motors Be Alive Today Without Government Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    GM went through Chap. 11 bankruptcy. The US government provided Debtor in Possession financing rather than a financial institution (JPMorgan, Citi, etc) due to the market environment at the time. The financial institutions at that time were highly unlikely to provide such financing. Without Debtor in Possession financing GM would have been liquidated.
    So too big to fail is alive and well... if that was the case, they would have filed Chapter 7 which is liquidation, yet they did not.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #13
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    Re: Would General Motors Be Alive Today Without Government Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So too big to fail is alive and well... if that was the case, they would have filed Chapter 7 which is liquidation, yet they did not.
    Because the US Treasury provided DIP financing. They were the only bidder, its a fact.

    Edit: The UAW and Canadian Governments also provided some financing.
    Last edited by drz-400; 04-30-12 at 10:17 PM.

  4. #14
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    Re: Would General Motors Be Alive Today Without Government Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick2253 View Post
    I think the more pertinent question is:

    Why do we want GM to still be around if its only means of survival was a government bailout?
    This is indeed the right question.

    If they would not be "alive" without government intervention, then they should not be alive.

  5. #15
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    Re: Would General Motors Be Alive Today Without Government Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Because the US Treasury provided DIP financing. They were the only bidder, its a fact.

    Edit: The UAW and Canadian Governments also provided some financing.
    And this is a good thing why? Why do I want the federal government buying interest in private companies? Why do I want my tax dollars bailing out bad behavior of large corprations? I've been against the bailouts from the beginning - all of them. GM would have been fine at least for a while after selling off their poorly performing divisions. The entire purpose of Chapter 11 is to delay debtors, delay payments, restructure and reorganize while continuing to run the business. I've seen no compelling evidence that suggests without the Government money, GM would have had to liquidate. I've seen lots of opinions on the subject, no evidence.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  6. #16
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    Re: Would General Motors Be Alive Today Without Government Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    And this is a good thing why? Why do I want the federal government buying interest in private companies? Why do I want my tax dollars bailing out bad behavior of large corprations? I've been against the bailouts from the beginning - all of them. GM would have been fine at least for a while after selling off their poorly performing divisions. The entire purpose of Chapter 11 is to delay debtors, delay payments, restructure and reorganize while continuing to run the business. I've seen no compelling evidence that suggests without the Government money, GM would have had to liquidate. I've seen lots of opinions on the subject, no evidence.
    Since there are plenty successful car companies, what would be the reason to restructure GM be? Why not sell the assets and be done with it and close shop altogether? What's the impetus to restructure?


  7. #17
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    Re: Would General Motors Be Alive Today Without Government Help?

    General Motors is a proprietary trade name. As such it's an asset. Even in a straight bankruptcy liquidation the proprietary asset would exist. It would have simply come out of bankruptcy with different owners who weren't necessarily well connected politically.

  8. #18
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    Re: Would General Motors Be Alive Today Without Government Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Since there are plenty successful car companies, what would be the reason to restructure GM be? Why not sell the assets and be done with it and close shop altogether? What's the impetus to restructure?
    Because the void in the auto market would be so vast the others would not be able to fill it. GM was not going out of business. The uncertainty of the latitude management would have to restructure, especially union concessions, was what caused hesitation in the private lending market. By getting the government involved the unions had a force to recon with. Without gov involvement the unions would have more 'power' to affect the 11 restructuring potentially causing a less sustainable restructure. ALL THIS IS MY SUPPOSITION SO DON'T BE ASKING FOR SOURCE.

  9. #19
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    Re: Would General Motors Be Alive Today Without Government Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    And this is a good thing why? Why do I want the federal government buying interest in private companies? Why do I want my tax dollars bailing out bad behavior of large corprations? I've been against the bailouts from the beginning - all of them. GM would have been fine at least for a while after selling off their poorly performing divisions.
    Different question. I am answering the poll, would GM be alive w/out government help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The entire purpose of Chapter 11 is to delay debtors, delay payments, restructure and reorganize while continuing to run the business. I've seen no compelling evidence that suggests without the Government money, GM would have had to liquidate. I've seen lots of opinions on the subject, no evidence.
    See my earlier posts. GM went through chapter 11 restructuring. It required Debtor in Possession Financing, for which the US treasury, the Canadian government, and the UAW were the only bidders. Without the United States Treasury providing financing, GM's only other option was liquidation. This was what was passed through bankruptcy court. Thus, the correct answer to this poll is no.

  10. #20
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