View Poll Results: Do you believe in God?

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  • Yes

    64 53.33%
  • No

    56 46.67%
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Thread: Do you believe in God?[W:359]

  1. #221
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    Re: Do you believe in God?

    Yes, I do believe in a Higher Power or God. In fact I believe in more than one different vision of The Diety.

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    Re: Do you believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Yes, I do believe in a Higher Power or God. In fact I believe in more than one different vision of The Diety.
    What do you conceive her to be like?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Do you believe in God?

    so, as for the poll...how many "yes" votes are from non-members?

  4. #224
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    Re: Do you believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The church does have a disturbing history of covering up priestly pedophilia, no doubt about it. I still have a problem with the idea that pedophilia is what defines the Catholic church, however. There is also such a thing as Catholic charity. There are the teachings of how we should live our lives and how we should treat our fellow men. If everyone were to treat others as they want to be treated, the world would be a vastly different place than it is now.

    The early Christian church also had a bad habit of persecuting Jews. Does that define the modern church?
    Nobody ever said anything about defining anything. I'd say that the Catholic sex scandals, because they are so pervasive and so recent, would be a lot more defining than something that happened hundreds upon hundreds of years ago, but certainly it isn't all that the RCC is about. Who ever said it was?

    Also, on Catholic charity, so what? So they do some good things? The biggest charities around are not religious, they are secular. Take the Red Cross. Entirely secular.

    Of course they're coming to the defense of their religion. It must be difficult to accept that someone in whom you have trust has violated that trust, but it does happen.

    I'm not sure just what abusive spouses have to do with any of this.
    It's the same kind of unhealthy psychology.

    Most of us do need a crutch from time to time. How easy is it to deal with the death of a loved one if you don't have someone to reassure you that there is something beyond this life? How easy is it to change your own life if you truly believe that there is no purpose beyond it? How easy is it to accept that you have some worth as a human being if you're simply a cosmic accident and your life has no purpose?
    I don't agree that anyone *NEEDS* a crutch, only that they want one. Actually, dealing with death is quite easy if you accept that death is a natural and unchangable part of life. We're all going to die. You. Me. Everyone we love. That's how reality works. Fearing it, hating it, running around crying about it won't change it. Dealing with reality on reality's terms is a part of the maturation process. People who cannot do so or refuse to do so are not mature.

    People in the Middle East in general do need to separate church and state if they're ever to be free. I'd hesitate to say that the Islamic extremists are in power in the entire area, however. The Taliban are just a small group, not representative of Islam.
    Yet the moderate Muslims provide cover for the extremists, just as the moderate Christians provide cover for the extremist Christians. By arguing that religion deserves extra latitude and additional rights across the board, it lets these monsters operate more freely and openly than they could if we just had societal standards and "religious freedom" didn't get a pass.

    God helps those who help themselves is a major tenant of Christian religions.
    If that were true, prayer wouldn't be a major tenet of most Christian religions. Calling the God-hotline and asking for everything from lottery numbers to miracles for the cat are ridiculously common.

    So, what is the secular argument for living an upright and moral life?
    Enlightened self-interest. We know how we'd like to be treated, therefore we reciprocate by treating others the same way. I know that if I'm ever down on my luck, I'd want someone to come to my aid and give me a hand up, therefore when I see someone down on their luck, I give them a hand up if I'm able. Humans are social, communal animals. We require others to survive and thrive. Therefore we must work cooperatively to see to the success of the group as it also ensures our own success. It's actually the exact same thing that the religious do, the religious just misattribute their reasons for doing so.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #225
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    Re: Do you believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    What do you conceive her to be like?
    I don't believe The Diety has a gender. I see The Diety like a huge diamond with an incredibly bright light at its center. Every different pantheon in human history is simply a series of facets of that diamond; just like you see light differently through a prism at different angles.

  6. #226
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    Re: Do you believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    You make a compelling argument for women priests. Don't hold your breath, however.
    Oh, I'm not, not in the short-term anyhow. Eventually, they're going to have to cave as they receive more pressure from congregants. Of course, what I'm really arguing for is doing away with priest celibacy. Doing that alone will cut down dramatically on sexual abuse of all kinds, simply because these men won't be denying their basic human biological needs.

    I don't disagree with the research you've posted, but I would say that it incorrect to compare pedophile data between the Roman Catholic Church and most or perhaps any Protestant denomination. The RC Church has a hierarchy that is quiet different from Southern Baptists, for example. By comparison the Southern Baptist clergy don't have much of an institutional hierarchy. As such there is no comparative reporting structure. A Youth Minister at the 1st Baptist Church in Dirt Squat, Kansas who is discovered to have sexually assaulted young boys will be dealt with locally. There is no institutional reporting structure compared to the Roman Catholic Church in Dirt Squat, Kansas.
    Absolutely they are, but some people assume that the RCC is the only one with a problem and they simply are not. Lots of religious leaders are using their positions of power to engage in illegal sexual activity with their parishioners of any age. It's not just young boys, there are plenty of cases of adult rape in the RCC as well. However, we do know specifically in the RCC that they have had an official position, a position written by the current Pope, to hide pedophile priests and to resist police investigations. They have actively hidden pedophile priests, shuffled them around to new churches and exposed thousands of children to danger, simply because they didn't want the bad publicity. That's not a problem, as you note, in most independent churches where they don't have that kind of command structure.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #227
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    Re: Do you believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I don't believe The Diety has a gender. I see The Diety like a huge diamond with an incredibly bright light at its center. Every different pantheon in human history is simply a series of facets of that diamond; just like you see light differently through a prism at different angles.
    Wow I didnt figure as being one of those New Age people.

  8. #228
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    Re: Do you believe in God?

    Yes, but I'm not talking about the old white-bearded guy or some other being that performs impossible tasks for us mere mortals ...
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-29-12 at 01:16 PM.
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  9. #229
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    Re: Do you believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Honestly, anyone who is only acting good because they're afraid of some imaginary father figure in the sky punishing them after they die is pretty unstable to begin with. Those people, we need to find and get out of the gene pool as fast as we can.
    As opposed to anyone who is only acting good because they're afraid of an authority figure with a gun punishing them now?

    Not that I have any particular urge to defend organized religions but that argument really doesn't hold water.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
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  10. #230
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    Re: Do you believe in God?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    As opposed to anyone who is only acting good because they're afraid of an authority figure with a gun punishing them now?

    Not that I have any particular urge to defend organized religions but that argument really doesn't hold water.
    At least the authority figure is demonstrably real. Granted, I don't have much respect for people who do either.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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